Daily Bread Mailbag: The Crawford-Madrimov bill, Tank-Shakur, Canelo, and the greatness of Barney Ross

Coach Stephen “Breadman” Edwards, in his latest mailbag, discusses Saturday’s August 3 show in Los Angeles, a possible bout between Gervonta Davis and Shakur Stevenson, Canelo’s pound-for-pound standing and Jaron Ennis pressing his case to face Terence Crawford.

Hi Breadman,

I pray God is blessing and continues to bless you and your family and the fans of your mailbag and their families. I found it amusing in your last mailbag that you said that boxing has the worst fans. I beg to differ. Boxing is the worst sport ever and is lucky to have any fans at all. Boxing fans get disrespected worse than any fans in the world.

They pay for inferior product a lot of times and never get the product that they want. The customer is never right in boxing and gets whatever garbage is thrown their way by the powers that be and then the powers that be wonder why boxing has lost so much popularity. Canelo Alvarez is the poster boy of this nonsense, and all his titles need to be taken away. He has the right to cherry pick but doesn’t have the right to keep the belts while he is cherry picking.

Benavidez earned the right to fight for Canelo’s belts and was deprived of that right which is totally unfair and bogus. Another thing that shocked me recently was in a previous mailbag of yours, in which you stated fights you think should be taking place, you didn’t put Bivol vs Canelo. I’m shocked that a boxing historian and expert like yourself wouldn’t want to see a rematch of that fight, especially since Bivol said he would come down to 168 to make it happen. Great fighters usually try to avenge their defeats or debatable wins. Ali vs Frazier, Norton and Spinks, Norris vs Brown, Mayweather vs Castillo and Maidana, Jones vs Tarver. They don’t tuck their tails between their legs and hide. People act like this fight didn’t happen. Am I the only one who saw it? I never seen so many people who are quiet about a so-called great fighter getting his ass beat in all my life. How come all the Canelo groupies aren’t demanding a rematch of that fight?  They are too busy hoping Beterbiev bumps off Bivol and that we will all forget about the butt-kicking he put on Canelo. That isn’t going to happen. 

Bread’s Response: I’m sorry but I’m standing by what I said. Boxing fans are the most disrespectful, unappreciative fan base that I have seen overall. Just check on Twitter(X) and you will see the disrespect. I’m not saying you’re wrong about Canelo not fighting Benavidez or avenging the Bivol loss. But that doesn’t excuse the disrespect they show to so many fighters… Errol Spence was instrumental in making one of the biggest fights of the decade and they crapped all over him because he LOST. Again, I love this sport but the fanbase is insufferable.

Greetings Breadman,

Crawford v Madrimov, Cruz v Valenzuela, Ruiz v Miller, Anderson v Bakole… What are your picks? My betting app will only let me bet in Nevada, so I’m trying to put a ticket in before I fly out to see it live. I’ll give you a cut if it hits!

I was going to go with all the favorites… who’s most likely to get an upset? Rayo could possibly tame the Pitbull… the past week or so the Cruz v Valenzuela betting odds have been locked/unbettable on the William Hill app , but it’s still on the board, never seen that before.. I think the Cubans, Morell and Andy Cruz, are both lock wins… Anderson is only a 2-1 favorite. I feel like he wins big vs Bakole.

Who’s another big-time rapper you could envision performing at one of these Riyadh season events?    

Mike, Las Vegas 

Bread’s Response: Hmmmmm…I like Crawford in a dramatic fight. Madrimov is very explosive and heavy-handed. This will also be his first time on the BIG stage. That can work two ways. One way is, you can tighten up. The other way is, you can put everything in the MOMENT and fight the fight of your life. I don’t know Madrimov well enough to say what will happen. But I know Crawford well. I’ve seen every single one of his championship fights since he won the title. And Crawford is an ATG despite what the critics say. I think Madrimov is gifted but he makes mistakes. I believe that Crawford is an instinctive savant. When he finds a tendency or weakness, he’s 100% on exploiting it. 

My instincts tell me that at some point Crawford will find it safer to be close to Madrimov than it is to be on the end of his big punches. At that point, I think he goes to his body, weakens him and stops him late or dominates the 2nd half of the fight for a clear competitive decision. 

Crawford is also an ATG body puncher and the experts don’t even mention it. He counters to the body as well as anyone I have seen. And that to me will be the difference. Bud is also mature in the ring. He has high EQ and high IQ. And when that allows him to be consistent. 

Cruz vs Valenzuela is a tougher fight than most think. I am going to go out on a limb and pick Valenzuela by upset decision. 

I think Anderson will be tested by Bakole. But I suspect Anderson is a little too gifted to lose to Bakole. I think Anderson’s clean punches make the difference. 

I can’t call Miller vs Ruiz because I haven’t seen Miller fight under his new coach Bozy Ennis. 

I agree with you about Cruz and Morrell. I like them both BIG. I think Eminem will perform again and rock the crowd.

Hey Breadman,

You’re a legend and thanks for teaching the world about boxing. Since the Tank vs Loma fight is not happening right now, I’m sure your inbox is inundated with questions about a potential Tank vs Shakur match up. You mind giving us your assessment of the fight, not a pick but a few highly likely scenarios? Here are my thoughts. When the matchups are extremely close and I have assessed them in every way and I’m still stuck, I tend to ask myself “who would win in the amateurs?” I know both are pros but a fight is a fight. And I know you’re not a fan of this logic. But it’s a better proxy than comparing their last two performances when both fighters are lights out good. That said, I believe Shakur wins! Both were top amateurs, neither had a traditional amateur style, like say a Sadam Ali, but Shakur had a slightly more amateur style back then. Here is a bit of support for my logic. The idea is that class shines over time. Considering all other things equal, like their development, no injuries, KOs, or major factors, I go with who I think would win in the amateurs (nationals) because they have shown that they can make it through the gauntlet of a big amateur tournament. Support for my logic: Ward vs Kovalev, Mayweather vs Corrales, Ali vs Foreman, Leonard vs Hearns, Tyson vs Holyfield, Usyk vs Fury, Lomachenko vs Russell, De La Hoya vs Vargas, Jones vs Tarver, Beterbiev vs Gvosdyk; Lara vs Angulo to name a few. Okay, these are all Hall of Famers but that’s the pedigree they bring, like Shakur. I only use this sort of prediction method when both fighters have extensive amateur careers and there are no major issues in their development. Doesn’t work the same when one fighter primarily develops in the professional ranks (e.g., Canelo, Chavez, Duran, etc) or has major issues in their life. Of course, this logic’s is not full proof: Holyfield vs Bowe, Casamayor vs Freitas, Reid vs Trinidad, De La Hoya vs Trinidad; but it’s a good indicator when you assess everything else and still struggle to make a prediction. You might recall that I once used this same logic to get your assessment on Plant vs Benavidez, years before you had Plant. You didn’t have a pick at the time but speculated that Benavidez had a size advantage and that could help him. I said Plant because I know he would beat Benavidez in the amateurs. I now recognize certain conditions that make my predictions using this method more or less accurate. Again, I reiterate you have an amazing career after training as a boxing analyst and writer. Good luck on the new Plant opponent and all your other fighters. Thanks for all the boxing knowledge.

Best,

Nick 

Bread’s Response: Everyone has their own way of deciding tough picks. I have a few ways that I decide. I decide who I think is the better BOXER by who would win an amateur fight. But a 12 round fight and a 3 round fight is different. So that’s not my end all. I think about who processes the best. I say to myself who comes up with a solution to a problem the fastest and most efficient. Mental processing is the most important trait a fighter can have. That’s much better than speed and power. Then I factor in past performances with the eye ball test. That’s simple. Just watch them objectively, your instincts will tell you everything you want to know by just watching a fighter. Last but not least, I say to myself, if I was forced to bet my mortgage, who would I bet on? Self preservation supersedes just about anything in this world. If you don’t pay your mortgage, you are homeless. That’s real. 

Tank vs Shakur is a great fight. I have my own opinion on the match up. But I want to see if the fight gets made first before I say too much. The business side of boxing has rarely given us this type of match up in this era. With two super talents in their 20s, in their primes, in the same division… So it’s not really worth arguing and getting hate mail about a fight, that most likely won’t happen next. What I will say is this is a great match up. Contrasting styles. Two BIG East Coast cities. Maybe a top 5 fight ever consisting of 2 southpaws. And in my opinion, if it gets made this year, it would be the biggest lightweight fight EVER, in terms of intrigue and potential money generated. I know the people in boxing who will support Shakur. And I know the people in boxing who will support Tank. From fighters, managers and promoters. This fight will draw a line in the sand among casuals and hardcore fans. Let’s see if it happens….

Mr. Breadman, how’s Philly going?

I am not belittling Claressa at all. Though I don’t like the self-titled GWOAT status (and she probably is imo), I look at MJ as my bball GOAT because when I was young the other players talked about him like that while they played. The best players in the world bowed down while competing against him in their prime and that is a huge reason for my opinion. So now, winning titles at HW and light heavy, all in one fight somehow, I guess that adds to her argument. I was looking and saw she unified or became undisputed middleweight champ with 20-25 other professional female boxers in the weight class. Is this true, and is it about average for female classes? I tried to find numbers for male boxers and was hoping you had some numbers, maybe middleweight men numbers? I searched and could not find out.

And what is with Caleb Plant? I was looking forward to seeing him back in there.  

You think a new opponent or any ideas of a next step? Always loved watching him fight and his demeanor.

Can you share any insight into PBC and the Amazon deal cause most fans and I have no idea what is happening over there. And Boots looked great as you always say. I want him to just say strap season and collect like Spence.

Kevin from MD

Bread’s Response: Whenever subjective assessment is the topic, CONTEXT is the number 1 thing that has to be taken into consideration. Women and men’s boxing should NOT be compared as far as rankings. The FIELD of competition is different. Men have boxed MUCH longer. So there are MORE people to compare them to, for a much longer period of time. That’s not subjective. That’s a fact. There are literally thousands more of men who box professionally than women. Look on boxrec and you can find the numbers you’re looking for…

I know where you’re getting at but I won’t go there. Claressa Shields is GREAT. She can’t help that there isn’t a deep FIELD in her sport. She has a right to claim the GWOAT status. It’s subjective in terms of who the best is. There are about 5 women who have a claim in my opinion. But I think it’s fair to say that Claressa is the most DECORATED Women’s boxer ever. With her 2 Gold Medals, and unifying multiple titles in multiple weight divisions in the pros while staying undefeated as a pro, we can say fairly that she’s the most decorated and accomplished. So her GWOAT claim is valid in my opinion. I just don’t want to get into comparing her to men, because the sports are just different in terms of number of participants and history.

I recently took the time to read a biography of Barney Ross, what an incredible life story. It made me curious how you assess the great lightweight-welterweight triumvirate of that era, Ross, Tony Canzoneri and Jimmy McClarnin. Obviously they deserve to be ranked highly based on their accomplishments. You want to talk about fighting everyone! And the surviving footage does show intense, high-level boxing. They don’t appear to the naked eye to be quite as athletic as far as power and explosiveness compared to some guys around those weights in recent decades. How well do you think they would fare? (I tend to favor old-timers in these hypotheticals because the sport was healthier and deeper on many levels but I also don’t want to be the guy who would be a lot more impressed with modern fighters if they were in black and white so I wanted to hear your expert opinion.)

Thanks, Luke, AL

Bread’s Response: Barney Ross was an exceptional fighter. If boxing stopped the day he retired, he would’ve been a top 10-20 fighter ever. I regard him so highly that Henry Armstrong’s performance and win over him is one of the five best wins in the history of the division. Tony Canzoneri and Jimmy McClarnin were pretty much Ross’s equals but Ross’s record looks better because he only has a handful of losses. 

I try to not compare eras but it’s really hard. Even though the sport is the same, the concepts change over time. The training ways change over time. And focus changes. Fighters didn’t cut as much weight. Their strength and conditioning wasn’t called strength and conditioning. They chopped wood. They swam. They threw medicine balls. They ran their miles. And they did calisthenics. Their purpose and goals as far as their bodies were different. So they fought different. No one knew what plyometrics and explosive training was in 1930. On top of that, the quality of the film was different back then. So even if it’s enhanced it’s still not the same quality of film we have today. So the fighters today “look” more athletic. I always like to imagine how would everyone be if everyone had access to the SAME thing. I will leave it this. 

All Time Great fighters are different from Hall of Famers and great fighters for an era or division. Ross was an All Time Great Fighter. He may not be a welterweight in this era because welterweights today cut down from 170 + pounds. But he would most likely be an ATG in any era.

Hello Mr. Edwards,

As always, many thanks for all you do and many blessings to you and your family and fighters. ESPN came out with their list of 100 best athletes since 2000. Then, the list was catergorized per sport. For boxing, ranking the top 10 men’s boxers of the 21st century, Floyd Mayweather? Manny Pacquiao? Oscar De La Hoya? Who tops our list of the top 10 men’s boxers since 2000? Here’s the list.

How do you feel about the list?  Are there any changes you’d make? Add/remove anyone from the top 10?

Should Sugar Shane Mosley have been in there?

Thanks so much for your time,

Amir – Bay2LA

Bread’s Response: Mosley was a great fighter but he had his best career title run in the 90s. His best win came in 2000 vs Oscar De La Hoya but I don’t know if that was enough to MAKE THAT list. I’m going to say I don’t find it egregious that he’s NOT on the list. I don’t want to get into who should not be on the list that are listed. It’s not the fighter’s fault. They didn’t put themselves on the list. But there is NO WAY you can have a best fighter of the 21st Century list and Terence Crawford and Oleksandr Usyk NOT be on it. It’s not sanctioned. In fact, Monster Inoue and Chocolatito Gonzalez have extremely strong cases if we are strictly talking about BOXING accomplishments. However, overall I think the list is solid. Lists are subjective and most won’t have the same exact list or order when it comes down to sports rankings.

Did you see the sparring session between Andre Ward and Bud Crawford? What a concept, for the interviewer to box the interviewee. What did you think of their sparring? Do you think Ward still has it? If he came back, what weight would it be and who would you match him against? Do you think he has a shot against a smaller heavyweight like Usyk?

Bread’s Response: I did watch some of the footage of their sparring session. It seemed to be good, controlled work. I think Dre looked good considering he hasn’t fought in 7 years. I can’t say if he still has it all the way. But he was a special fighter. So his muscle memory kicked in and he held his own. 

I wouldn’t match Dre would Usyk. That’s a tall glass of water for him during the peak of his career. So after a 7 year lay off and with the size disadvantage I don’t believe it’s a fair fight. Dre looks like he’s been lifting weights. So I doubt if he’s still a light heavyweight. I suspect he’s a cruiserweight at this point in his life. I think a good fight would be Ward vs Badou Jack. The reason I say this is, Badou Jack is around the same size as Dre. He’s not really active. And he’s a good fighter but he’s not overwhelming physically. I’m not saying Ward would win after 7 years. But I do think this would be the best fight for him if he decided to come back. Jai Opetaia and Oleksandr Usyk are tough fights at this moment. 

Saturday is the perfect opportunity for Boots Ennis to jump in the ring after Crawford wins the IBF 154 lb. belt. His father will be there because he trains Andy Cruz. Boots wasn’t at Crawford-Spence. Let’s see if he’s there Saturday. If he’s not, that will be two prime opportunities he’s passed on to show he really wants to fight Bud. At some point, smiling at the camera and proclaiming that everyone is avoiding you has to be backed up by your actions.

Like I said in a prior submission, I don’t listen to what people say. I watch what they DO and I listen to what they DON’T say. I like Crawford by TKO in 11, Andy Ruiz by KO in 7, Andy Cruz by UD, Pitbull by KO in 6 and David Morrell by TKO in 10.

Carl Hewitt Queens, NY 

Bread’s Response: Just because Boots doesn’t do what you think he should do, doesn’t mean he doesn’t want the fight. Some fighters aren’t wired like that. Some fighters aren’t comfortable bringing that kind of attention to themselves. Maybe he’s a just a fighter and not an athlete who likes extra attention….

How would you feel if you were interested in a woman? You made it clear that you wanted to date her. But you didn’t press her hard. And she told you that other guys showered her with gifts and flowers just to get her to go on a date. And even offered to pay her bills. I don’t know you, but I would hope you would tell her that’s them and you’re you. Well that’s what I would tell her… See how that feels… You should know better.

Crawford WANTED the Spence fight bad and he did his thing when he got it. But I remember him being clearly boxed out at 147lbs for years. And I don’t remember him going to any of the fights between Errol Spence, Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman calling anyone out. So as the young folks say, you’re CAPPING right now. 

Madrimov is a gentleman. He didn’t call Bud out. He hasn’t had to do anything extra to GET the fight. Why does Boots have to act out of his character to get a fight when NO other Bud opponent has had to. And Bud never did it when he wanted the Pacquiao and Spence fights for years… Answer me that directly when you get a chance. 

By the way. I like your picks. I want to see how Miller looks under Bozy Ennis, so I can’t call that one. And logic says Pitbull Cruz wins. And I’m probably wrong but I suspect an upset in his fight vs Valenzuela. Every other pick I like a lot. Good picks but you’re still a Jaron Ennis hater. And he’s going to break your heart time and time again because he’s the goods. 

Hey Bread,

I believe P4P means who is a greater fighter at the moment regardless of weight class. It means who is the better fighter based on their division and who would win regardless of weight. I think resume plays a strong part but I think very often we keep fighters on the list or higher on the list than they should be based on resume. In what other sport do you decide who’s best in the world right now for a win or an accomplishment from 4 years ago? The Rams won the Super Bowl a few years ago does that push them up as the very top teams because they won somewhat recently the biggest win?

When things are close you can use resume to push ahead and give some bias which is fine and deserved, but to keep them there strictly based off of that is ridiculous to me.

I think Canelo loses to two people in his own division, how would I put him above all these other people when he hasn’t had even a semi-meaningful win in 3 years (since before the Rams won the Superbowl).

What sport can someone not win anything even semi-significant for 3+ years or defend anything real and fans still call them the best in the world or the very best?

Matt Fitzpatrick won US Open in golf in 2022, he’s currently ranked 22nd in the PGA tour currently and would be ranked lower than that by most people.

Matsuyama won Masters in 2021. He’s ranked 11th.

On that note, what will it take to force Canelo to fight someone worthy? Mayweather sold insane tickets and buys because people thought he would lose and some liked him. People criticized Mayweather opponents after fights but before and during fights, fans bought tickets to watch him lose because there was a belief.

No one will buy Munguía or Berlanga thinking there is a chance of him losing, there is zero belief.

Why would Canelo fans buy these fights where it is just a showcase against a subpar and undeserving fighter yet again? I don’t get it. How does he make this crazy money fighting underserved and less talented fighters when there are challenges all around him and a direct challenge that’s been there in the same division with him for 5 years and even the most die-hard Canelo fan would tell you he deserves a fight way more than anyone else. Canelo fans dismiss Benavidez as if he doesn’t need to fight him because Canelo would win, but then argue that it’s ok to fight Munguía and Berlanga instead which makes zero sense. Canelo won’t need to take any challenge because of the money he makes off fighting subpar guys and it’s pretty sad that his fans are okay with that for years at a time. I’m a massive Benavidez fan and I am terrified for him to go after Beterbiev because I want to watch him challenge himself at the ultimate level even when I am skeptical on his chances. I don’t think Canelo or his fans truly want him to be great. I think the illusion is more important for them. I respect Canelo and think he’s a very good fighter. I don’t understand why there has to be a false reality to his fans though, why not just see what’s going on for what it is. Canelo has to be pushed down on P4P lists and nobody should complain. And it has to be acknowledged that the Benavidez duck is one of the very bad and obvious ducks in boxing history, no matter what you think about Canelo or Benny.

Thanks, Jake

Bread’s Response: I agree with you 100% about P4P. 

As far as Canelo. I think we have to take him on a fight-by-fight basis. He’s slowing down a little and but he’s still a shot caller. So I suspect what we will see happen with him is….  Some of his future opponents may be more competitive than we think going in, so the fights will be good despite the outward appearance. I also believe the fights will be more events for casuals than great match ups that spark the interest of hardcore fans. Let’s see what happens……

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