Daniel Dubois-bound Anthony Joshua no longer fears defeat

Eddie Hearn believes Anthony Joshua is a changed man ahead of his crunch September 21 clash against IBF heavyweight beltholder Daniel Dubois.

The two meet as part of the first Riyadh Season event at Wembley Stadium, and while it is Hearn’s job to repurpose and repackage a fighter who has suffered three defeats, he is doing so certain that things have changed inside camp Joshua and inside the mind of one of the sport’s franchise fighters.

“The vibe that I get is that the fear is not really there any more – of losing,” said Hearn. “I think because of the [Andy] Ruiz defeat and because of the [Oleksandr] Usyk defeats and because you’ve experienced it before, it’s not like, ‘Oh well, if it happens it happens’, but you’ve been there. You’ve experienced that. You know how much it hurts. We don’t look at this fight and say, ‘The pressure’s on, because if you lose to Dubois what could happen?’

“We’re just excited for the fight and, I know it’s standard, ‘Oh he’s having a great camp’, but he’s having a great camp. He really is working well with [trainer] Ben [Davison]. He’s firing on all cylinders, and I think it’s a really tough fight. I think it’s a dangerous fight. I think it will be interesting to see what Dubois does; it will be really interesting to see if Dubois can handle the pressure. Because I know he boxed Usyk in Poland, but this is going to be a moment that is going to make his knees knock. And you need to have not just a big set of bollocks but you have to have a really strong mind to compose yourself in these kind of moments. 

“And I think it will make him [Dubois] fight more erratically, which again, is a danger, but I think whatever the game plan is, I think he’ll struggle to adapt the game plan in there. I don’t think he’ll have a cool head, which again, might make it a shootout and it’s a very, very dangerous fight, but no fear of losing at this stage. He [Joshua] takes on all challenges and this one just happens to have a world championship attached to it.”

Joshua has found a new lease of life under Davison and strategy coach Lee Wylie, but so too has the 21-2 (20 KOs) Dubois, with fast pads specialist Kieran Farrell and coach Don Charles. 

Wins over Jarrell Miller and Filip Hrgovic have earned the 26 year old his spot in the opposite corner against Joshua but Hearn feels that the difference-maker is the belief Joshua now has in himself and his team.

“I think the best way to describe it with ‘AJ’ is when he understands the game plan, he’s really, really good and really, really effective,” Hearn explained. “And it’s probably the way that you deliver that game plan to him. In the Usyk fight, and I think maybe in the [Jermaine] Franklin fight and maybe in the [Robert] Helenius fight, I just feel that he didn’t have that clarity. He’s a very bright guy and you can’t bluff him, so you can’t say, ‘Yeah, you’re ready’, and that. If he’s not ready or he doesn’t feel comfortable with the game plan, he won’t be as effective. And I think what you saw in the [Otto] Wallin fight – there was a period when I was going into the changing rooms, particularly around Usyk and Franklin and Helenius even, and I was watching him hit pads and you know just when it’s not really flowing and clicking?

“Then I went into the changing room like half an hour before the Wallin fight and I thought ‘Fuck me, I’ve never seen anything like this’. Everything that Ben was working on… and you could see AJ just completely getting everything and that complete trust in Ben and Lee Wylie that the game plan is perfect, and he knows exactly what he’s got to do, and he’s a regimental guy that will drill and drill and drill, and that will be the same for Daniel Dubois.

“They will know exactly what Daniel Dubois does. They will know exactly when he makes a mistake, when he moves and when he’s open to be countered, and it’s just repetition and when he fully gets the game plan and when he’s fully drilled, I think he’s unbeatable. And that’s how we feel at the moment. We really feel like everything that we’re seeing in the training camp and everything that Lee and Ben are drilling is exactly what’s going to happen on September 21st. Because that’s exactly what we saw against Wallin. It’s exactly what we saw against [Francis] Ngannou. 

“And with all due respect to Dubois – who’s a dangerous guy – he makes mistakes and he’s not a difficult fighter to work out. What he does have is he’s very strong, and he can punch and he’s physically a problem. But he makes a lot of mistakes and when you analyse a fighter like that, it’s not hard for the minds of Ben Davison and Lee Wylie to figure out the game plan of how you beat this guy, in my opinion.” 

Hearn was full of excitement for the Riyadh Season build-up in London as the fight draws closer, having seen power-point presentations of what to expect. 

“It’s going to blow your mind – the country’s never seen anything like it,” he added – and should 28-3 (25 KOs) Joshua, 34 years old, come through, Hearn would like to see him fight his long-time rival Tyson Fury, who rematches Oleksandr Usyk in December.

“I think if he wins on September 21st, I believe he’s going to fight Tyson Fury, win or lose against Usyk,” Hearn added. “But he’s also going to want to fight Usyk, for undisputed. That’s always been his dream. I think the great thing about September 21st is Turki [Alalshikh], I know how much he loved the LA event that we did with him – he will look around at Wembley and just be dying to do another one. And hopefully any fight that involves AJ, in an ideal world – and it’s nothing that I’ve discussed with him – it’s just an ideal world, AJ wins [against Dubois], Fury wins [against Usyk], two fights next year for undisputed, one in Riyadh, one at Wembley. Again, that’s just my hope. No indication from him. But I know that you’ve seen his keenness to do shows around the world and I think he’s going to love Wembley.”

So is there a chance it is Joshua-Fury next, regardless of what happens in December?

“I think so,” Hearn continued. “To be honest, AJ, all he’s got on his mind is Dubois. Obviously. Winning the world heavyweight title. But I know that, if he wins on September 21st, the only fight he will want is the winner of Usyk-Fury. 

“Don’t get me wrong, he’s always wanted to fight Fury – he’ll definitely do it – but when the decision is read out on December 21 [Usyk-Fury], he will want the winner of that fight, because he is only one fight away from being undisputed himself. But, if that can be Fury, I mean, [the dream]… To fight Fury for undisputed? Going in as a beltholder against the unified champion? That would just be immense. And if Usyk was to win, I think he’ll want to fight Usyk. But I think he’d also be under a lot of pressure to face Fury, pending what happens in that fight.” 

Usyk-Joshua is a harder sell given the Ukrainian’s two previous wins over the Londoner, but Hearn believes this is a different Joshua – although he understands the difficulty of the commercial pitch.

“It’s difficult because when you talk up AJ in that third fight you also can’t eradicate the history of two defeats,” the promoter said. “The first was a clear defeat, the second fight he lost but I felt that it was a much closer fight and he had some great spells – it was just the championship rounds Usyk was sensational. But Ben Davison has said to me on so many occasions, ‘I promise you, if he fights Usyk he’ll knock him out now’. 

“I’m obviously going to say that, and it’s difficult to get people on board with that because of what happened in those two fights and because of how Usyk looked. But you’d be mad to think that AJ’s the same fighter that he was going into those fights because we talked about that input of data and game plan – he had absolutely no game plan going into the Usyk fight[s]. He was completely lost in styles. He didn’t believe in his preparation, in my opinion, for that fight and I think it would be totally different this time.”

There is also a chance that Usyk’s fights with much bigger men could eventually cause his downfall.

“That’s what’s going to be interesting about December 21st,” said Hearn. “Because when Usyk left the ring that night against Fury, he like had to be carried back. Like he was exhausted. Exhausted. And Fury was out on his feet. So sooner or later, these guys, they’re just not going to be the same, and I think the timing’s perfect for us, but it’s kind of all irrelevant pre-September 21.

“I just feel that that fight would have taken a huge amount out of him [Usyk] physically, but, he’s had a nice rest [since the fight in May]. But I think the rematch is going to be fascinating.” 

As Hearn said, the chatter about future fights could quickly become redundant if Dubois manages his third big win in a row. Everyone was talking about Joshua’s future before he fell to Andy Ruiz, and specifically about Deontay Wilder, but Hearn insisted that his fighter will be focused only on Dubois now. That much appeared clear from the fighters’ head-to-head interview, when Dubois’ promoter Frank Warren inserted himself between them before the fight could start any earlier. Hearn was there and saw things get heated.

“The only thing that really sets AJ off is when someone sticks it on him, I mean, AJ didn’t really want to be in that room,” Hearn said. “He’s done it a million times and it wasn’t pleasant but it was a quite interesting chat and then Dubois just went, ‘Well, we can go now if you want?’ And I was like, ‘Oh, fucking hell’. Because that’s the one thing you say to AJ where, I don’t know what it is but you’re trying to intimidate him, you stick it on him and he has to react, and that was his reaction of saying, ‘Don’t start saying all that’.

“I think people sometimes just presume AJ’s kind of corporate side of him is not going to allow him to behave like that, and I think now more so than ever, I don’t think he really cares. And if you try and intimidate him physically, that’s the reaction you’re going to get, and that’s what happened.”

Hearn was also asked about Joshua’s drawing power and popularity in England. Joshua was riding the crest of the wave when he won a fight-of-the-decade contender against Wladimir Klitschko, but three defeats on and there is a sense things might have changed. That might, in part, come from AJ fighting on away soil, conceded Hearn. 

“Don’t forget, his last two fights have been on the road,” he said. “So he hasn’t boxed in the UK for a year now. When you talk about after the Klitschko fight, that was the greatest of highs. And again, we haven’t seen a stadium fight with AJ since Usyk back in 2021. So it’s been a long time. Sometimes you get beat a couple of times and maybe people start to question but I think the momentum – particularly after the Wallin and Ngannou wins – the momentum’s back with him. People are excited to see him fight, and let’s be honest, talk about promotion – it’s a lot of tickets [that have been sold already]. 

“When we did Klitschko, that was 90,000. Then we did [Alexander] Povetkin and whatever that hit, say 80,000, 85,000. He’s massive still. Yes he’s had a couple of defeats and I think after Klitschko that was a real profile high because it was one of the greatest fights we’ve ever seen and one of the great spectacles we’ve ever seen and we may get another one on September 21st.”

And should Joshua win and look good, what next?

“Then it’s all eyes on Fury-Usyk,” Hearn added. “And I think the momentum from an AJ win in style would take him into a massive 2025, which funnily enough could be the defining moment of his career.”