1980s heavyweight powerhouse Gerry Cooney engaged in a number of massive fights, often times against fellow big punchers. Today, long retired and with a fine career to look back on, Gerry hosts his radio show. A keen analyst on all big fights, heavyweight in particular, Cooney was as shocked as we all were this past weekend, when Daniel Dubois wrecked Anthony Joshua by fifth round KO.
Here, kindly, Gerry speaks about the recent fight, along with other things, including his own career.
Q: It was a massive shock over here in the UK, Gerry. How did Dubois’ KO over AJ go down in the US?
Gerry Cooney: “Well, I think over 90,000 people came there to see Joshua beat Dubois. Really, I mean, the other kid was a big underdog. But obviously, after years of watching heavyweight boxing…..you don’t walk in there in front of the other guy with your hands down, especially after you hurt him. You know, Anthony Joshua hurt Dubois. He hurt him. But then he had his hands down, Joshua. And he got caught with a solid shot. Anybody, at that size and that weight, can get knocked out. Plus, given the fact that he’s made a lot of money; sometimes you lose the ‘fight.’”
Q: It’s interesting you brought up Joshua’s defence, because a lot of people over here commented on how he had his hands held so low. Lennox Lewis picked up on it. Why would he have his hands so low, Joshua? It seems crazy now, looking back?
G.C: “Yeah, it’s crazy to see that. But I blame his corner. I blame his corner for that. Obviously, Joshua’s the [former] heavyweight champion of the world, he’s an illustrious, great fighter……that’s the worst thing, you walk into someone’s right hand! I don’t know what he forgot. I’ve seen Joshua fight [Oleksandr] Usyk, and they had a plan. But when the plan doesn’t work, you job the plan and you get inside, you get close, you don’t walk straight in front of him. Joshua was walking straight to the guy in front of him, he didn’t step to the right to get him off-balance, he walked with his hands down straight in front of him. I don’t know where that came from. I love Anthony Joshua, I always have. I picked him to win that fight. But you can’t win the fight with your hands down, walking right to the guy. You’ve got to get off to the right, to take his power away from the right hand. He didn’t do it, he walked right into it.”
Q: People over here in the UK have said they saw there was something wrong with Joshua as he entered the ring, that his legs were off, or something……
G.C: “I don’t believe that, I don’t. I don’t care what weight class you are, you don’t walk right in front of the guy, to the guy, especially when he’s hurt, ‘cos he can hit you with a hail-mary punch, and that’s what happened. Dubois hit him with a hail-mary punch, a right hand and he knocked him out, because Joshua was supposed to come from the side, never in front of the guy. You have to step right, never stand there where the guy’s most powerful. Get to where he’s not powerful.”
Q: I have to wonder what Joshua’s game-plan was.
G.C: “Let me tell you something. When he fought Usyk, how did he think he could box a boxer? You’ve got to slow down a boxer, hit him to the body. You have to rough them up. And again, against Dubois, he walked straight in front of him with his hands down. Against the MMA fighter [Ngannou], he looked like a fighter on the way back, he did such a great job, and then this happened [against Dubois]. Nobody in the corner…. I don’t know anybody who would have Joshua walk right in front of Dubois, when he’s hurt, on the ropes, and leave himself open with his hands down. Maybe he’s seen better days, maybe he got too rich. And maybe the people came to see him [fight] his last time.”
Q: It has been suggested that AJ is too rich and comfortable. The big question now, Gerry, is can he come back, after 4 losses but after having been knocked out like never before?
G.C: “I don’t think he can come back at all. They were hoping him and Fury, but that’s out. He’s had a great career, he’s done a lot of great things. Get out before you get hurt.”
Q: A lot of people are saying what you just said – get out. But if he doesn’t retire, well, let me ask you this – would you work Joshua’s corner if he did fight again?
G.C: “Listen, you have to sit and talk with him, find out if he has the motivation. They have to teach him [if he does fight on] how not to get hit, how to use his jab more, be more defensive, come from different angles…..don’t just walk in front of him! He’s had trouble with his corner ALL along. When a guy’s 240 pounds or more, you don’t walk into him with your hands down. Really….”
Q: You’re right, Gerry, Joshua has changed trainers, I think, around four times during his pro career…..
G.C: “I think he’s had a great career. What is he now, 34? This boxing career, it knocks the life out of you. People love him over there, he’s done a lot of great things. Get out and enjoy it. He’s got kids and all that? Take some time, come back as a commentator. He’s got a great voice and personality. I met him in New York and he’s a great person. I was rooting for him. But we learned a lot about Dubois, he’s a great puncher, and he’s getting better after his losses to Joyce and Usyk. It’s also a very tough division now, these guys are big – what 6’7, 6’8, 6’9……where did that come from!”
Q: You got out at the right time, at age 33, I think it was, on your own terms…..
G.C: “I had problems with alcohol. I put it down in April of 1988, and my life was completely changed. I, whatever it was…a beer, whatever it was, I didn’t feel good about myself, whatever it was. But I survived and I saved my money, and I’m out. I’m on the radio, I love the show, I get to travel all over the world.”
Q: And you speak now the same way you did decades ago, clear and with no clue that you ever took punches.
G.C: “Well, you should talk to my wife (laughs). No, I’m only kidding. I’m fine.”
Q: And that’s what we want for Joshua, to get out in great shape, like you did.
G.C: “Right. And you think about all the tough guys who are out there now – Martin Bakole, Agit Kabayel, Zhilei Zhang. All tough guys out there. And he [AJ] just fought a guy and he stood right in front of him. You have to use your skills, you have to box them. There’s a lot of ways to go about fighting a guy like that. Bakole, a tough guy from the Congo, I’m not sure how long he’s gonna stay around. I think Usyk has an easy time with him. Bakole’s a big, strong guy, but Usyk’s not gonna stand around, he’s gonna run!”
Q: Interesting stuff. Aside from Usyk, who is the second best? Fury?
G.C: “You know, with Fury, I don’t know, it depends on if he really wants it anymore. Look at Joshua, he made a lot of money. But I don’t know what happened to Frank Sanchez (Cuban heavyweight contender, last seen losing to Kabayel). His last fight, he looked terrible, and I think he fought injured but wanted to get that money, you know what I mean? But with that terrible loss, he might not get another shot. Daniel Dubois is in a great position. He did hurt Usyk to the body. So who knows, maybe he can get better.”
Q: Your KO of Ken Norton, we still get chills over that one!
G.C: “Yeah, I was in great shape. I could have beaten King Kong that night! But then I started drinking, silly….. But anyway, that was a great one for me. Call me any time.”
Q: Best to you, champ. And thanks so much.
No wonder they call him “Gentleman” Gerry Cooney!
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