Daily Bread Mailbag: Vergil Ortiz vs. Boots Ennis, Benavidez vs. Morrell, memories of Emanuel Steward and the Mike Tyson-Jake Paul fall-out

In this week’s mailbag, coach Stephen “Breadman” Edwards reflects on what happened in Texas between Jake Paul and Mike Tyson, as well at Katie Taylor-Amanda Serrano, and he looks ahead to the fascinating clash between light heavyweights David Benavidez and David Morrell while recalling a treasured conversation with the great Emanuel Steward.

 

Hi Breadman, I pray God is blessing and continues to bless you and your family and the fans of your mailbag and their families. Can someone please tell me when Virgil Ortiz became Julio Cesar Chavez? Everybody keeps saying he will knock out Boots like it is automatic. Did they not see Ortiz’s last fight? He looked way worse than Boots did in his last fight and in my estimation, he lost that fight to Bohachuk. I pray they make this fight because I always wanted to see it. Usually, you want to see a fight because both fighters are coming off great performances and you are hyped up for that reason. This fight is interesting because Ortiz and Boots are coming off their worse performances and both look vulnerable which makes the fight interesting. I feel it will definitely end in a stoppage and I like Boots in this fight because I think he will be stronger at 154 and he seems to have better boxing skills than Ortiz, who showed a lot of heart in his last fight but got his butt kicked. Boots showed some flaws but won his last fight. In the immortal words of Mills Lane, let’s get it on.

Bread’s Response: I actually agree with you. I feel like the media spin and the fans can influence the truth. I find myself shaking my head often at boxing takes. I think Vergil Ortiz is a tremendous fighter. I love watching him fight. But the truth is, Ortiz had the perfect opponent in front of him. A guy that walked straight into his power. And went toe to toe with him. And he struggled a great deal. Props to Serhii Bohachuk but he was tailormade for Ortiz. 

Boots didn’t get dropped. He wasn’t visibly hurt. And there is NO one who thought Karen won. There are several people who think Ortiz lost. Especially after being dropped multiple times. I think there were two official knockdowns but he hit the canvas other times…

It’s so strange that after Boots fought, you had media pundits saying Ortiz stops Boots. I said to myself, off of what measurable does Ortiz stop Boots. If you’re grading their last performances, they both struggled. If you measure to what degree, Ortiz almost lost. He won a majority decision.

I’m not saying that Ortiz can’t win. It’s a competitive fight. But if you looked at Ortiz’s last fight and looked at Boots’s last fight and you came to the conclusion that Ortiz stops him, it’s because that’s what you WANT to happen because Ortiz looked worse than Boots.

I would love to see the fight also, and I hope it happens next. I hate arguing over fights that can be made. 

What’s up Breadman? How do you see Benavidez vs Morrell playing out? Is it too soon for Morrell to be in a fight of this magnitude? Who do you think is the most underrated fighter today or the most overlooked? Thanks for everything. Love reading your weekly responses.

Bread’s Response: It doesn’t matter if it’s too soon for Morrell. He has the fight now. Once a fighter gets to the top level, they should be able to fight the best. You won’t win every fight if you fight elite fighters in their primes. But it doesn’t mean you weren’t ready. Some people you just can’t beat.

I think Benavidez vs Morrell is a war. Both are confident alpha types. It’s going to come down to who can function the best under fatigue and who is the best catcher. The fighter who can take his opponent’s punch the best is the puncher in a fight. I don’t know what type of chin Morrell has. I haven’t seen him hit with a huge shot. But I can tell he’s confident in his chin. He brings it.

When Morrell was fighting super middleweights, I always got the impression he was fighting a division too low. His bone density is enormous for 168lbs. So Benavidez will be fighting someone his size. Size has an impact on physicality. I feel like Morrell will act like the puncher early whereas Benavidez is more well rounded than he’s given credit for. I feel like Benavidez will allow Morrell to be the alpha early and sort of just try to touch Morrell’s mistakes. 

As the fight goes on, I think Benavidez will assume the role of alpha. My guess is Benavidez is too well rounded. He will out box Morrell in certain spots but Morrell will have success. As the fight wears on, I think Benavidez takes over down the stretch. I don’t know if Benavidez stops him but I think he wins. I simply know more about Benavidez, so my comfort is in picking him because he’s proven in certain spots and Morrell has been overwhelming undersized opponents. I don’t care that he struggled in his last fight. What concerns me in picking Morrell is that he didn’t adjust well when his physicality didn’t overwhelm an opponent.

In this fight, Morrell will need more tools in his box. I’m not suggesting he doesn’t have more tools. But I can’t give him credit for things he hasn’t shown yet. So I pick Benavidez by close but clear decision or late stoppage in a thrilling fight.

Most overlooked fighter today? I would say Junto Nakatani.

Sup breadman, Could you explain what commentators are talking about when they say a fighter is “boxing” or needs to “box”? I know what it means, but I am interested as to how you would explain it to a casual fan. Erik Morales “outboxed” Pac in their first fight, but that looked alot different then how Floyd would outbox his opponent. Is it a style thing? For example, Morales or Juan Estrada, Mexican fighters using angles and combinations, or Eastern European fighters Beterbiev, GGG, Bivol using a jab and educated feet and of course American fighters like Floyd or Crawford being slick and adaptable? Or do fighters apply their “boxing skills” based on their strengths? Or their opponents style/skills? I recall you saying you’ve had fighters fight out of there normal style. Hope you and yours are well Thank you

Bread’s Response: Great question. Not all boxers box the same, as you know and stated. But my interpretation is a fighter is boxing when he’s using his skills moreso than his physicality. When he’s applying his defense, along with offense and he’s not just using  brute force or conditioning. 

Peace and blessings as always sir. A few years back, you mentioned that you met and spoke to the late great Emanuel Steward during the BHop vs Dawson rematch. My family is from Detroit and his voice is missed in the sport. If it’s possible, are you able to give any gems he might have passed along. I know you have spoken about Brother Naazim and Virgil Hunter giving some pointers. Just interested to hear what Mr. Steward had to say considering you spoke to him relatively close to him passing? Thank you for your time, Jack in Minnesota 

Bread’s Response: It was in April of 2012. Julian Williams was with Gary Shaw Promotions at the time. Julian was 8-0 and we were matched against a kid named Hector Rosario who was 7-1. They were basically fighting for a contract. It was our biggest fight to date. And little did I know, our last fight with Gary Shaw. There were many eyes on us that night. And we trained accordingly. What was unknown to us was Brad Owens who works for Al Haymon, saw the performance and the rest is history.

But another set of eyes who saw the fight was Emanuel Steward’s. I noticed he came out to watch our fight along with Max Kellerman. I didn’t understand their interest until after the fight. 

So Rosario was a big puncher with a big left hook. I had Julian stepping over to his left and pivoting out to his left away from the big hook. Rosario took a big step and a wide swing to deliver his hook. The tactic worked and Julian lit him up for a unanimous decision. He basically pitched a shutout in his first eight-round fight. 

So after the Dawson vs Hopkins fight, I headed back to my room. As I was leaving the casino area, I saw Emanuel Steward. We made eye contact and I asked how he liked the fight. He replied, ‘Were you working in Julian’s corner?’ I said yes. He said, ‘You guys had him fight a really good fight.’ He went on to tell me he came down early to see the fight because Rosario stayed on his floor and Rosario told him and Max Kellerman he was fighting Julian in a tough 50/50 fight. 

So we began to talk. He asked me why we fought the way we did. I told him I didn’t see a reason to slug it out because Rosario was a big puncher with slow feet. Julian was faster, longer and more skilled. We just had to worry about the big hook, so we boxed him and kept him resetting and turning.

Then he said to me that he trained a kid named Tony Harrison who was around Julian’s age. And that they both would be world champions one day and make a lot of money. He was prophetic. So now we just started talking. People were stopping to listen and ask him questions. He was polite but he kept steady on our conversation.

I asked him questions, like how long he thought training camps should be. He told me no more than six weeks if a fighter stays in the gym. I was surprised at that. But he told me he overtrained Hearns for the first Leonard fight. He said they went too long and too hard. As I found out later, as I ascended as a trainer, he was right. Long training camps lead to stale moments in camp which can cause a fighter to lose confidence. If a fighter is in 75% shape, all he needs is eight weeks. He said six weeks but with today’s inactivity, I readjusted to eight weeks.

Then I asked him who he thought would win between Floyd Mayweather and Hearns. Then Mayweather vs Leonard. I won’t reveal his answer out of respect for everyone involved, but he gave a deep analysis. 

He also told me that he almost trained Ray. He was very close to training him. He said Ray had unbelievable stamina and he was something in the gym. And that stamina led to Hearns over-training because he knew Ray would make a late round push. I found that interesting.

We then talked about trunk and shoe colors. Walk out music. How to condition a fighter. Food intake. It was unbelievable to me how in tune he was. I used to pick my fighter’s walk out music. Help design their trunks. And make their food. He told me he did the same exact thing. It gave me assurance I was going in the right direction because up to that point, I had not met anyone that was so involved.

I estimate our conversation lasted about an hour and a half to two hours. I say that because I saw him after the fight and fights usually end around 11pm. I didn’t get to my room until after 1am. It was the best conversation I ever had about boxing. And I’m glad I met him. Rarely have I ever approached an icon out of fear that they don’t live up to the aura. But our meeting was organic.

The added pressure of Steward and Kellerman being at ring side was a good pressure. There was hardly anyone in the arena so they could hear my instructions. I knew I had to be on point. But more importantly Julian had a great camp and he had to execute. I’m glad they came out to watch the fight.

The one thing I will admit, I was hesitant to ask Mr. Steward for his phone number. I didn’t want to be imposing or seem weird, so I left it where it was. We shook hands and walked away and he passed a few months later.

RIP to the GOAT Emanuel Steward.

Bread, while I’m relieved Mike Tyson was not stopped or hurt last Friday night, it was still sad to see Iron Mike look like that against a man that wouldn’t have even given him good sparring in his prime. I wasn’t in favor of this fight (didn’t even know if I would tune in), but I did think that the Tyson that showed up against Roy might have beaten Jake. After seeing the fight I still think that version of Mike might’ve beaten Jake Paul. Do you think Mike really aged that much since his exhibition against Roy or was there something else going on? I ask because I didn’t just see an older Mike Tyson in the ring, I saw an unhealthier version of Mike in the ring. He had a knee brace, poor movement and his conditioning was so much worse than what we saw from him five years ago against Roy Jones Jr. that I have to think there was more going on. Serrano and Taylor gave us another great fight to remember, but I can’t shake off the feeling Amanda got the short end of the stick here against Taylor. Not saying the fight was a flat out robbery (I don’t know that Amanda won five clear rounds that couldn’t be argued in favor of Katie) but considering the headbutts ended up being Katie’s most effective weapon and what enabled her (in my view) to land more on Amanda once the cut opened up, it just felt wrong to see Katie get the benefit of the doubt again in another close decision. I want to congratulate Barrios and Ramos for bringing the heat on the undercard. Taylor vs Serrano and Barrios vs Ramos saved this card in my eyes, but I also want to call out the terrible 116-110 scorecard in favor of Barrios. Judges that turn in scorecards that far off need to be questioned, investigated and properly disciplined if necessary. I’m glad Netflix was able to put this card at no extra charge for subscribers, but they desperately need to sort out their streaming technology if they want to be a player when it comes to streaming live sporting events. Additionally, I don’t know why Goyat (no disrespect intended to him) got to be on the Netflix televised card while Shu Shu Carrington was on the YouTube undercard, that made no sense to me.  Final question: Is it harder to beat a bigger defensive boxer as a smaller puncher than the other way around? Take care, Bread, God bless.

Bread’s Response: I’m starting to think Mike Tyson may be the most polarizing fighter ever. We saw him stopped by Kevin McBride in 2005. No disrespect to McBride but he’s nowhere near an elite fighter. So in 2024 there were people who thought Tyson would beat Jake Paul. Tyson has admitted health problems and strong drug use. Tyson also has a style that doesn’t age well. But yet everyone still tuned in to see a 58 year old fighter who was over 30 years past his best… 

I definitely think Tyson looked better vs Roy Jones. I also think he has some leg issues. His balance is off and his legs seem weak. But he was in decent shape and he was very determined. Because his legs were gone Jake Paul was able to play it safe because Mike couldn’t close the distance. I know there are people who say that Paul showed compassion to Mike by not stopping him. I’m not so sure that was the motive. We have to realize boxing is a prideful sport, and wherever pride is prevalent so are lies.

I heard Paul’s corner imploring him to KO Mike. And I saw Tyson land just enough leather to let Paul know not to get too close. Tyson’s defensive instincts were pretty decent and Paul wasn’t able to just tee off on him. Paul is a solid prospect but he’s still green. He doesn’t know enough to flat out take it easy on Mike. I think what happened is sometimes we can shoot an arrow then draw the bullseye later.

Tyson landed a nice left hook. I can’t remember if it was the 5th, 6th or 7th. But it got Paul’s attention and it kept him honest. Paul also got fatigued. So towards the end of round 8, Paul decided to give Mike his respect and allow the time to run out. I won’t dispute that. But I didn’t see that compassion throughout. I thought Paul was throwing some big right hands earlier in the fight and if he would’ve hurt Mike with one of them, I believe he would’ve tried to finish him. 

Mike took his punches well. Jake Paul is a very smart guy, despite some of his antics. So he understands that people will hate him if he hurts Mike too bad. So afterwards he keeps a certain fan base intact by not hurting the legend. So it’s the right thing to say to keep that fan base. 

But from perspective, I only saw Jake Paul sort of cruise in the last 20 seconds of the fight. Other than that, he was trying to hurt Mike and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s boxing. The objective is to punch either other in vital areas. 

I see fighters in the gym everyday come up with weird logic. You will have older fighters acting as if they are just working with younger fighters and not trying to hurt them. While the younger fighters are beating the **** out of them. Go figure.

I just had a fighter hurt his sparring partner. And the fighter told me he backed off of the sparring partner because he didn’t want to end the sparring session too soon. I believe he backed off of him because he didn’t want to press the action and look silly in a crowded gym if he couldn’t get the guy out of there. This fighter is not a compassionate person. He doesn’t have it in him to be nice to a stranger who is trying to hurt him back. I didn’t buy his excuse one bit. My point is it’s convenient to give the prideful excuse after the fact.

Mike Tyson is like one of those old men in the hood that you don’t want them to get their hands on you. You can get over on them, if they don’t grab you. Well, in boxing he can’t grab but the equivalent of that is staying on the inside with him or sitting in midrange too long. So Paul is not experienced enough to sit in those ranges with Tyson without getting hurt. 

So his common sense and self preservation kicked in. And common sense told him to box from long range. Land his jab and right hand and not get close to Mike, despite his corner wanting a KO. It just wasn’t worth the risk for him. I don’t go by what people say. I go by their energy. Their character. And my eyes. 

For more than 40 years Larry Holmes has fooled the world about saying he took it easy on Muhammad Ali. Holmes is an ornery person by nature and he didn’t like being in Ali’s shadow. He can act as if he had compassion for Ali all he wants. But I watched that fight closely. And if you watch the fight you don’t see Holmes taking it easy on Ali. Holmes was loading up on big right hands trying to rip Ali apart. At one point he was hitting Ali in the back of his head and kidneys because I was contorting his body on the ropes. Again, watch the fight!

Holmes waved for the referee to stop the fight but he did that to several opponents. But he didn’t ease up on his punches. When people repeat that Holmes took it easy on Ali, I know they didn’t watch the fight. They just repeated something they heard someone say. Holmes thought it sounded good to say, he did and people believed him. But I saw different. The only person who besides my grandfather who saw different is John Scully. Scully routinely calls out the myth of Holmes taking it easy on Ali. 

Ironically, Tyson knew Holmes didn’t take it easy on Ali and it’s why he got revenge for Ali eight years later. Now we will have to see if one of today’s current fighters will feel the same way about Mike that he felt about Ali and seek out revenge.

Taylor vs Serrano was a great fight but I disagree with the robbery. I was watching the fight with my wife and son and I was pointing out to them that Taylor has Olympic pedigree. And her punches are more eye-catching to a judge who can’t hear commentary or see punch stats. Both of them were in agreement with me and they didn’t understand the announcer’s perspective of the fight and the punch stats. So we weren’t shocked at all when Taylor won. 

My son, who takes things very literally, was very upset with the punch stats because in his mind, the person who lands the most punches wins. And he thought Taylor was landing the most punches but the stats didn’t reflect that. So in his 12 year old brain, it was hard to reconcile.

I feel for Serrano but I truly think Taylor edges her at the finish line because of their styles. It’s hard for blue collar elite fighters to outpoint blue chip Olympic level fighters. See Leonard vs Hagler. See Whitaker vs Chavez. I’m not saying it can’t happen. Because it has. But I am saying the Olympic-level fighter will win that match up 6 or 7 out of 10 times if it comes down to points. 

If you noticed, I picked Katie Taylor. Another example is Meldrick Taylor vs Julio Cesar Chavez. Chavez has to hurt Taylor to beat him while they’re in their primes. Because Taylor’s punches are too eye-catching for Chavez to outpoint him otherwise. 

I don’t want to say too much but Serrano is making two fundamental mistakes when she fights Taylor. She gets away with it vs. other opponents but Taylor is special level elite and she’s on to it. I don’t think Serrano even realizes it’s a mistake because she thinks she won the fights, which she has a right to. But she has kept doing the same thing for 20 rounds now, so I’m assuming she doesn’t get what she’s doing wrong. But I don’t want to get into it too much because they may fight again and as you know, the game is to be sold, not to be told. 

Did Tevin Farmer establish himself as a legitimate lightweight contender or did he establish that William Zepeda isn’t a legitimate lightweight contender?

Bread’s Response: Tevin Farmer established himself as a lightweight contender. I think William Zepeda is also a legitimate lightweight contender. He’s just not the future of the division. Some of his luster has been knocked off because he struggled with a fighter who is viewed as past his prime but it’s not the end of the world. 

What happens is the fans and media create expectations that are a step too far. They create these expectations that are the ilk of special fighters, for fighters who haven’t proven to be special. So when Oscar De La Hoya faced an ageing Chavez, he stopped him early. When Mike Tyson faced an ageing Holmes, he stopped him early. Ok, so the fans and media who want Zepeda to be special, make it out like it’s a forgone conclusion that he crushes Farmer. So the expectations are out of hand. And when it doesn’t happen…….

What we have to realize is that knocking out or dominating an elite level fighter is not easy. And when fighters routinely do it, we need to appreciate it but not expect it to happen every time that scenario comes up. What we see Bam Rodriguez do to ageing fighters is not what every young fighter is capable of. Bam is special. Zepeda is good. There is a difference. 

Hey Bread, Jake didn’t carry Tyson. He felt the pressure and the experience in the early rounds and seemed gassed already. He feared the left hook. His corner was panicking in the last round, not that he was even close to losing, but to knock Mike out. I saw him swing hard with everything he had and missing. He tried to knock him out and my eyes don’t lie. What a convenient way out to imply you didn’t want to hurt him. I hope boxing people see through this. On another note, what he does for boxing is great and I would love to see him against a competent top 20 cruiser – a pretty weak category anyways. How do you see Jake vs Billiam Smith or Zurdo playing out? Or a guy like Joe Smith or a Callum Johnson type of guy up from light heavyweight? Love Barrios and what a warrior but think he is very privileged and protected. I think he is sub-Jesse Vargas type of fighter and yet he is a big name and a clean 147 champ. Take care, Diego

Bread’s Response: For the record I have no issues with Jake Paul. The dude may be a marketing genius. And he’s finding his way in this hard world. But I feel the same way you feel. Besides the last few seconds, I saw Jake Paul trying to KO Mike Tyson. I also feel like you save a fighter’s dignity when you carry them because losing by decision is better than losing by KO in most people’s minds. So if you decide to save their dignity and not knock them out, why take their dignity away from them immediately afterwards by telling everyone what you did. I don’t know how to reconcile that. But it gives me the feeling of the rich person giving the homeless guy $20 for some food but he does it on video and he shows everyone. At a certain point it’s not for them, it’s for you, if you tell everyone.

I don’t think Jake was trying to humiliate Mike by saying he carried him. Jake is still a young guy and we all do conflicting things. But he has to realize Mike is prideful and no prideful person wants to hear that. 

I think Jake Paul is a very good promoter. I know people that worked the show, and they told me the MVP staff was great. I don’t want to see Jake beat up on anymore legends. But I do look forward to his events. The matchmaking with Taylor vs Serrano is exquisite. Their styles fit perfectly for TV. I also liked Jake signing Ashton Sylve. I know Sylve lost but I loved his potential and I respect Jakes’s eyes for talent with that signing despite the loss. 

Believe it or not I think Jake Paul can become a world champion. Here is why. Control. Jake controls the details. He’s the promoter and the A side. So he can set the price for any champion he deems vulnerable at that moment. Cruiserweight is usually one of boxing’s least talented divisions. Cruiserweight rarely has a top 10 P4P fighter. So if Jake saw a weak champion slipping, I can see him setting the table in his favor and winning a belt. For an example, not the level of fighter that Jai Opetaia is. But someone like Junior Makabu. Makabu seems to have favor in the WBC. If he wins a belt again or someone of his level, I can see Jake making that type of fight and winning.

Jake is also only 27 and most of the best cruiserweights are over 30. So, again, mark it down. If a super vulnerable fighter slips through and wins a legit belt, I think Jake will make him a big offer and possibly win. Jake has time to get better, he has an outstanding training team, he has good fighting instincts and most of all he has control of the event. 

Bread, your breakdowns of Serrano vs Taylor and Paul vs Tyson were literally perfect. You could definitely get a job as a fight scout. My question, what do you find easier, predicting a fight or breaking a fight down? 

Bread’s Response: I doubt I would get a job as a fight scout because very few people in boxing like to pay. So they would rather ask me for my opinion than pay me for my opinion. But it’s definitely easier to break a fight down. I can break fights down in my sleep. It’s just something I’m good at. In actuality I will let you in on a secret. I don’t pick fights. I break fights down and then as I conclude my breakdown, I determine a winner. Nothing is exact when you’re making a prediction but that’s the method to my madness.

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