Daily Bread Mailbag: Bam vs. Estrada, Winning As The Underdog, PEDS, And De La Hoya As A GUN

Greetings Brother Bread,

I was watching a segment on ProBox TV regarding Ryan Garcia’s next move after the suspension. The possibility of him boxing overseas came up. Made me think, Ryan vs Conor Benn in Saudi Arabia would be perfect timing. Only place either of them could fight and they’re both currently in limbo. I know you’re against cheaters being rewarded with a payday, and I selfishly ask, what do you think of that scenario? On another note, Haney should probably wait on the Ryan rematch to right the wrong. It seems like he’s in a no-win situation vs Sandor Martin. Could be a tough night out, Martin is no slouch. 

If the fight is a stinker or Haney loses, it’ll set him back even further. 

If waiting for Ryan isn’t the move, in which direction could you see the Haneys moving to get back on track? If Haney sits out and vacates, I think Teofimo should petition to fight Sandor Martin for the vacant belt in a rematch/unification. Teo gets him out of there the second go around. 

Mike Las Vegas 

Bread’s Response: Ryan Garcia is on a suspension for a year. Who knows how the next year will play out for him? It’s too much to consider at this moment.

Haney shouldn’t wait on Ryan Garcia for anything. I’m not saying he shouldn’t get revenge because if that’s what he wants, that’s what he should go after. But he shouldn’t wait on Ryan Garcia. But unfortunately for Haney, critics will say he needs to prove that he can beat Ryan Garcia. When the real criterion should be, if Ryan Garcia can beat Haney while making weight and not testing positive for PEDs. 

I’m usually one for fighters being fighters and not playing matchmaker. But Haney facing Sandor Martin right away after a purse bid when the Garcia ruling just came back seems a bit rushed in my opinion. Martin is a southpaw mover which won’t be an easy style for a jab dominant boxer like Haney. So if Haney took his time with his next move, I wouldn’t blame him. 

I don’t like giving advice. I really don’t. But every time I get on X, I see someone bashing Haney. All he did was fight a guy who came in heavy and tested positive for PEDs. I still don’t get why anyone would be upset with Haney. He went on with the show despite Garcia coming in 3lbs over. I know he was financially compensated but so was Diego Corrales when Jose Luis Castillo did the same thing Ryan Garcia did. Then Castillo tried to do it again if anyone remembers. That fight ruined Corrales and he never won another fight again… So Haney still went on with the show, which shows professional responsibility. Then the drug test results came out positive and somehow that’s Devin Haney’s fault. 

Haney didn’t conduct the drug tests. VADA and the NYSAC did! I think Haney should consider stepping away from social media for a few months to regroup. The negative poison of social media will creep into your energy if you aren’t careful. That’s my only advice to Devin. Don’t allow these sick people access to you after he was cheated out of his moment. 

GUN! I have seen you use this several times (not many) most recently for Oscar De La Hoya. What is it’s meaning? Your column is always reasoned and informative, but GUN remains a mystery to me.

Bread’s Response: A GUN is a fighter who will take tough fights, when other profitable fights are out there for him and he still stakes on tough style match-ups, weight match-ups and fights great fighters at their peaks. Oscar De La Hoya has a great argument for having the best resume since 1990 if you consider who he fought and when he fought them and what options he had. Oscar was the A side in all of his fights, so when his big fights were made, he’s the main reason they were made.

Oscar turned pro in 1992. When he was 4-0 he fought Jeff Mayweather who was 23-2-2 and was a very savvy boxer in an 8 rounder. In about a year and half he was 11-0 fighting Jimmi Bredahl for his first world title at 130lbs. So now the ascension begins. In a short time he moves up to 135 and fights ex champion Jorge Paez for the vacant belt. After a few showcase fights he takes on tough John John Molina, another ex champion. Then Rafael Ruelas in a unification. Then HOF Genaro Hernandez. Then ex champion Jesse James Leija. Then he moves up to 140 and fights legend Julio Cesar Chavez. Then 41-0 Miguel Angel Gonzalez. Oscar is already a HOF before he turned 24 and a three-division champion. But let’s keep going. 

He moves up to 147 and in his 1st fight, he takes on another legend in Pernell Whitaker. After a showcase fight he takes on another HOF in Hector Camacho. He takes another showcase fight and he gives Julio Cesar Chavez a rematch. Then he fights an undefeated P4P fighter Ike Quartey. In his very next fight he fights Oba Carr, one of the best title challengers of the era. Then he fights legend and HOF Felix Trinidad. Oscar is ONLY 26 years old at the time. He takes another showcase fight and then he takes on HOF Shane Mosley. After Mosley he takes on HOF Arturo Gatti. He’s 28 at this time and he moves up to his 5th division at 154 and wins that title vs Javier Castillejo. 

Then he fights a unification with Fernando Vargas. Long time top contender Yori Boy Campas is next.  Then a rematch with Shane Mosley. Oscar then moves up to his 6th weight division vs undefeated Felix Sturm. Then get this a unification vs Bernard Hopkins the best MW of the last 30 years. Then Oscar takes on tough ex champion Ricardo Mayorga. A prime Floyd Mayweather. A prime Manny Pacquiao. Oscar is the only fighter in history to fight the #1 P4P fighter 5x!!!!! His resume can hold up against any resume in the HISTORY of boxing. 

Oscar = GUN.

Before you ask me for the GUNS of this current era, leaving out the fighters I have worked with…. Here they are. Oleksandr Usyk, Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder, Tim Tszyu, Erislandy Lara, Canelo Alvarez, Shawn Porter, Errol Spence, Terence Crawford, Teofimo Lopez, Devin Haney, Vasiliy Lomachenko, Bam Rodriguez, Roman Gonzalez, Juan Estrada, Monster Inoue… I most likely forgot a few but this was off the top of my head.

Greetings Bread. 

Thanks for taking the time to answer everyone’s questions each week. I have two questions. First, you recently wrote in the context of Tank Davis that “Some fighters are good at winning rounds. Some are better at winning fights.”  Who are your top three fighters whose style lends itself to being ‘better at winning fights than rounds?’ 

Second, Joe Rogan recently had two gentlemen on his podcast who were promoting the Enhanced Games, an “Olympic alternative” where all the athletes use PEDs.   

Boxing will be one of the sports in the games. 

If a fighter participates, and is literally admitting to PED use, won’t that fighter essentially be blackballed from going anywhere in the pro-ranks?

Thanks,

Steven B. Weinberg

Bread’s Response: I’m not going to discuss any Enhanced Games.

My top 3 fighters who are better at winning fights than winning rounds. I don’t have a top 3 but I do have fighters who I have seen give consistent great performances after losing rounds but they figure out a way to win fights.

Terence Crawford has lost his share of rounds in the first half of fights. But he’s never really come close to losing a fight itself. Think about that….

Jermell Charlo loses almost 50% of his rounds. Watch his fights with John Jackson, Jeison Rosario, Charles Hatley, Austin Trout, Tony Harrison and Brian Castano. Yet he won most of those fights and carved out an excellent career at JMW. He’s possibly a HOF.

Juan Estrada is as calm as they come. He loses rounds early in fights but he stays technically brilliant until he finds something.

Canelo Alvarez doesn’t blink an eye when he loses a few rounds. He stays calm, finds his groove and wins the fights.

Historically, James Toney, Julio Cesar Chavez, Alexis Arguello and Rocky Marciano have lost big rounds early in fights but kept chipping away until they got consistent historical victories.

Juan Francisco Estrada has defeated every boxer he’s faced. He has big names on his resume. He’s won championships in two divisions and defended those titles multiple times. His losses have been close and debatable. That being said, he’s a clear betting underdog against Jesse Rodriguez. If Estrada beats Rodriguez, is he in the conversation for best pound-for-pound fighter? Winning as a sizable underdog would be something on his resume that many other pound-for-pound fighters don’t have.

Bread’s Response: Juan Estrada is a great fighter. He’s a HOF fighter. I also think he loses to Bam Rodriguez. So if he wins this fight, I would be extremely impressed. I think it would put him in the 5-7 P4P but it wouldn’t overtake Crawford, Inoue or Usyk. Estrada is the underdog because many feel he got a gift in his second fight vs Chocolatito. He was also dropped vs Cuadras. Estrada hasn’t fought since 2022. So he’s been in a slight performance slump while Bam has been on fire. If Estrada wins this fight it’s a huge legacy win for fighters under bantamweight historically. It may not make him P4P #1 at this moment but historically it would be very significant.

Hello Breadman, 

Much is being made of the Garcia-Haney fight and the decision being overturned.

Garcia is suspended for a year, he only fights once a year anyway, so where is the penalty. There has to be a PED check with results before the fight. But it doesn’t seem the fighters or boxing want this. Haney did not have to fight Garcia after he missed weight. Haney chose to fight him. What I take out of all this is Getting The Money is all that matters. And all sides are guilty of this. It is a mess no one wants to fix. My second question is about Crawford and Spence. Do you think they will ever fight again, at 154? Third question, seeing a fight live and watching on tv, what are the differences? What are the pros and cons. Angles and closeness and the crowd. Do you lose the replay that tv offers. If you had to choose to watch live or tv, which would you choose? Thank You, J.B.

Bread’s Response: I don’t disagree with you about no one really caring about PEDs in boxing. They only care when the fighter they have a vested interest in either gets caught or fights someone who got caught. Other than that, it’s mostly fake outrage. 

But I do want to correct you on something. Just because fighters get tested before the fight, it doesn’t mean that those tests can’t be negative then a later test still be positive. The tests are the test. And when someone uses, is when they use. The test is blind to when they use. The test just reports what was in their system when they were tested.

Sometimes fighters use before the testing starts to get the benefits of the PED. Sometimes they microdose during camp while simultaneously trying to estimate when the testers will come. Sometimes they misjudge the microdosing and they get caught. The science of the testing is the science of the testing. But it’s up to the USER on when he gets caught. He gets caught when he isn’t careful and there are detectable levels of what he took in his blood or urine. It’s just that simple.

I don’t know what will happen with Errol and Terence. But I suspect that both will fight only a few more times before they go off in the sunset.

Watching a fight live is definitely different than watching it on TV. The crowd is the biggest factor in watching it live. When one fighter has the crowd cheering after every attempted punch it can influence your opinion. Also the angle you are at, can obstruct your view if it isn’t perfect. But while watching it on TV, you can be influenced by punch stat statistics which aren’t always indicative of what you’re looking at and commentary that favors one fighter over the other. I can score a fight objectively either live or on tv. I don’t really have a preference if my seat is good live.

Can you break down Bam Rodriguez vs Juan Estrada. Something tells me Estrada’s experience will play a factor down the stretch. I can remember Bam won the title at 115 and they moved him back down to slow him down after he struggled a little bit. I can’t remember the opponent’s name but he gave Bam a tough time. Can Estrada pull this off?

Bread’s Response: I remember the fight you’re speaking of. The opponent’s name was Israel Gonzalez. And you’re right, Bam did struggle. But something tells me Bam has some Salvador Sanchez in him. Whereas Sanchez may struggle vs Pat Cowdell and win a close decision but he stops HOFs Azumah Nelson, Wilfredo Gomez and Danny Lopez.

Rodriguez has raised his game and been on fire in his BIG fights vs Cuadras, SSR and Edwards. I think Bam will be on fire vs Estrada. The issue for Estrada is Bam’s speed. 

I felt like Chocolatito beat Estrada to the punch in their second fight. Gonzales is much older than Bam. On top of that Bam is a southpaw. So my guess is Bam is a little too quick. A little too smooth. And his feet have a little too much dexterity for Estrada. I am not predicting a stoppage because Estrada has a great chin and great stamina. But I wouldn’t rule it out because Bam seems to do that in big fights. I like BAM BIG in this fight. I think the Phoenix crowd will rock hard for Bam and I think he’s going to rock hard for them.

Will Kyrone Davis get the number 1 ranking now that he defeated the number 1 contender? Somehow I don’t think so, seeing how things work in boxing. Even though I don’t think Elijah Garcia deserved to be in the number 1 spot, that’s where he was rated. So Davis should have his spot, or am I wrong? If you could choose Davis fought next, who would it be? 

Before I finish, congrats on his performance. I didn’t see that coming. As a coach I think you perform better as the underdog trainer than anyone currently in boxing.  

Davis was an 8 to 1 underdog against Garcia. Garcia came in 3lbs overweight. A judge had his scorecard filled out already. And Davis, who likes to come forward, boxed beautifully off the back foot and won. That’s a statement win for him and you.  

JRock, he has clearly seen better days. I thought he would get stopped brutally inside of four rounds vs Carlos Adames. But he not only weathered the early storm but he was slowly turning the fight around. Who knows what happens if the referee doesn’t stop the fight. In that fight you had a referee and a judge against you. You complained about Mark Nelson and no one cared until he screwed up the heavyweight title fight between Usyk and Fury… a much more important fight in the public’s eyes. But I remember what he did to you guys. Adames left his trainer after that fight and he looked hesitant against Terrell Gausha. I believe it’s because he underperformed against Julian Williams which is a credit to you guys. I’ve never been big on Caleb Plant since his loss to Canelo Alvarez. I thought he would get drilled by Benavidez. But Plant fought better than he ever had before and showed much more heart and resiliency under you against Benavidez than he did against Alvarez. JRock was a 5 to 1 underdog against Jarrett Hurd and you guys went to his hometown and beat him at his own inside game. That was the best performance of 2019. And Kyrone went to 168 and got a draw vs Anthony Dirrell on short notice in a fight that was laughed at as a main event on FS1 because it was viewed as lopsided. Kyrone really won. Why was there no rematch for a draw in a title eliminator? They stack the odds against you and your fighters and for the most part, you get the most out of the opportunities. I’m giving you your props now because I know how this game goes. As soon as you take another L the critics will be at your throat. Props King

Bread’s Response: My man. I appreciate you. Thank you. All I can say is I like being the underdog coach. I don’t know why. It’s just how I’m wired. I like it when everyone is against me. I’ve always been like that as a little kid.. In basketball I had my biggest games on the road at our opponent’s court. As a kid when my friends picked against my guy in big sporting events, I became more intense. I literally almost got into fist fights when Ray Leonard fought Donny Lalonde and Evander Holyfield fought Riddick Bowe. I had friends who wanted Lalonde and Bowe to win. Leonard and Holyfield were my favorite fighters….I just love it when everyone is against us. But I don’t love it when my hands get tied behind my back with poor officiating. If my guys aren’t supposed to win, then there should be no need to stack the deck, right.. Besides that, a real fighter will find it motivating to shut everyone up. So I train real fighters and we become inspired when everyone is against us.

What do you think of the recently announced Anthony Joshua vs Daniel Dubois clash? This fight caught me off guard with a title on the line. Is it Dubois’s time or is Joshua too experienced?

Bread’s Response: Let me think on this fight. I really like it. I feel like Dubois has really turned the corner. Success brings confidence. Dubois has recently shown more heart, composure and professionalism. The issue for him is Joshua also seems to have his confidence back. I’m still surprised he dominated Otto Wallin so easily. I thought Wallin would be a tough style match up for him. So both have raised their games. My guess today is Joshua wins by ko in a great fight. That ends by the 8th round. But at heavyweight where both guys have a big punch and have been hurt and stopped. This is really anyone’s fight.

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