Daily Bread Mailbag: Mike Tyson returning at 58 years old; Who wins the Matchroom v Golden Boy 5 vs 5?

It’s that time of the week, folks. In this week’s mailbag, Stephen ‘Breadman’ Edwards casts his eyes over questions about Mike Tyson, father and son boxing teams, Salvador Sanchez vs Eusebio Pedroza and many more.

Happy reading!

Do you feel any sort of sadness knowing that Mike Tyson is getting a paycheck to sacrifice his name to Jake Paul’s boxing resume? I was never a fan of Tyson but it makes me cringe knowing that a boxing legend is going to get beat up by Paul for a paycheck.

Bread’s Response: I’m not sad because it hasn’t happened yet. I don’t really get sad over projection. I get sad over actuality. What I will say is I’m concerned. Tyson is 58 and he was shot 20 years ago when he fought Kevin McBride. So that’s concerning but I’m not sad. Because Tyson may hit Paul on the chin and ko him and we won’t have to see an ATG fighter get hurt at 58 years old. 

I honestly don’t know what to expect. But I will tell you what I think and see. I think Jake Paul is a solid fighter for his level of competition. He’s nothing special but he’s not a bum. He has heavy hands, he trains hard and he’s in the position of power to choose his opponents. 

I know he got it wrong with Tommy Fury but for the most part, he’s picked the right guy. That’s concerning because he wouldn’t have picked Tyson if they didn’t think they saw something in Tyson. I hope they’re wrong. 

What I see in Tyson is an older man who’s training really hard and taking this serious. But again, Tyson was shot 20 years ago. I also see balance issues with Tyson. He’s leaning forward and tipping over in every punch sequence. I hope this doesn’t show up in the fight. Other than that I’m on a wait and see basis.

Hey Mr Edwards, I liked your responses to the Teofimo Lopez racist remarks and the piece on Salvador Sanchez, particularly the latter. I’m from an older generation but I liked Sanchez. What I didn’t like was how the fight with Eusebio Pedroza was not made. Two dominant guys in the same division, both in their primes and no one puts that together. That’s like Leonard missing Hearns. It’s crazy. We don’t know the background of why the fight was never made but my instincts are that the fault was all on Sanchez’s people’s side. Sanchez was the more marketable fighter and had many options but he never called Pedroza out at any point. Pedroza called him out consistently, so if there’s a mark against his obvious ability, greatness and potential for ATG status, it was the Pedroza miss. Pedroza was no joke and he had a few dirty tricks up his sleeve. He was also big at the weight although Sanchez was broader. Of course Sanchez fought to the level of the challenge and he beat a truly magnificent fighter in Wilfredo Gomez. But I don’t know how he handles Pedroza’s elbows, low punches on the referee’s blind side and thumbing – in addition to Pedroza’s brilliance. So, can you do a small piece on Pedroza? I think he ranks second only to Roberto Duran among Panama’s greats.

I think Teofimo Lopez must be watched carefully. I ain’t no psychologist but something about him worries me and we have seen enough morbidity in the sport, from Sonny Liston’s mysterious death, to Tony Ayala’s self-destruction, and the Arturo Gatti and Hector Camacho endings. I just hope it all works out fine with Teofimo because he tries very hard at the sport. I don’t think he’s great but he’s good and I’m not really sure he bested Loma. Here’s the question: Is there anything more you as trainers, and guys fighters trust with their lives, can do to work on the out of ring psyches of your fighters? I mean Leonard’s success was unparalleled but how do you explain the battle with drug addiction? (Thank goodness he’s worked out ok). Is there no room for you guys to do more outside the ring with these guys because you go through so much with them in camp and inside the ring? 

So back to Sanchez v Pedroza. Does it require a trilogy? 

Also having seen how Tyson Fury teetered on the brink against a cruiserweight, do you think he could stand up to Rocky Marciano’s indefatigable style and crushing power?

Keep punching Mr Edwards. Katlholo, Johannesburg, South Africa.

Bread’s Response: I was a big fan of Sanchez. I respected Pedroza as a fighter. There’s a difference. Sanchez was more beloved. But Pedroza was his equal as a fighter. As much as I liked Sanchez, the onus is on the A-side to make the fight. It doesn’t mean the less marketable fighter can’t screw up the fight but the A-side fighter has more power to make a fight. So without naming specific names throughout history, when we see big fights that weren’t made, the first thing I look at is: Who was the A side? Then I see if there was an offer made and if so, was the offer fair. And so and so on, amongst the facts. 

I remember there was talk of Sanchez moving up to 135 and fighting Alexis Arguello in 1982. But I never heard of an offer for Sanchez to face Pedroza who was at 126lbs with him for his entire reign. Pedroza even fought Patrick Ford who gave Sanchez a tough fight and outperformed Sanchez vs Ford. So I definitely give Sanchez more blame as to why the Pedroza fight didn’t happen.

Pedroza was super tricky and super dirty. Think of a right handed version of a prime Joel Casamayor, mixed with some Emanuel Navarrette. Obviously being better than both. I think he would’ve given Sanchez hell and his style would’ve been all wrong for him. But Sanchez was the more consistent fighter. Pedroza  had some odd nights. Rocky Lockridge and Bernard Taylor have strong cases of beating him. Pedroza’s reign was ended vs Barry McGuigan who fights nothing like Sanchez so I won’t count that. But I will give Sanchez the edge because each time he stepped up to face a H-O-Famer, he not only won but he got a stoppage. That’s telling to me Sanchez had a savant-like adjusting quality. So I don’t know if he stops Pedroza, but I do think he edges him in a tactical, rough and intriguing fight. Sanchez was as clutch as they come and he always seemed to have a little extra in the tank at the end of fights although Pedroza had that same late round quality. But you don’t get credit for being the favorite in a fight you didn’t take. Not even someone as beloved as Sanchez.

I don’t want to compare Marciano and Fury. It’s a 90lbs weight difference and a foot difference in height. It’s just too hard to compare that, if they aren’t in the same era. 

As a trainer you wear more hats than you are paid for on a consistent basis. It’s why I don’t like to see when fighters don’t want to give their trainers the standard 10 per cent of their gross pay, especially long time trainers. Trainers are oftentimes the saviour to these young kids, who become millionaires and then, in turn, turn their backs on their trainers.

Each fighter is different and each has their own set of issues. Oftentimes family issues, moral issues and mental health issues such as ADHD and depression are an issue. I will answer you from a different perspective. Anything a trainer does extra outside of the gym and outside of the realm of training is extra. And whatever it is, it should be valued and appreciated. I don’t want to put any extra burden out there on trainers. Because as a trainer, you always inherit problems and issues outside of the scope of training that you don’t get paid for. 

Imagine being an electrician. And you go to a house to put lights in. And once you get there the resident tells you their toilet is broken and they ask you to fix it but he doesn’t offer to pay you for it. That’s the life of a trainer. Ask any world class trainer and they will verify what I’m saying… 

Hey Bread, Do you remember KO magazine in the 90s?  I used to love reading those, there were a couple things I  remember reading in those magazines related to technique  that I haven’t heard you mention  in any of your mailbags. The first is the Oscar De La Hoya half hook, half uppercut, his old trainer called it the 45-degree bomb because of the angle he threw it at.  Are there fighters today who use that punch as effectively as Oscar did?  Also I remember they used to call Kotsya Tyszu’s style a “drowning style” the way he would press his opponent and slightly step back and it would mentally exhaust the opponent, hence the “drowning” style. I remember Oscar fought like this too. I specifically remember when he fought Rafael Ruelas he did this. Can you elaborate?

Bread’s Response: Of course I remember KO Magazine. I had a subscription. I also remember Oscar’s 45-degree hook/uppercut. It was a devastating shot. I thought Oscar would be on the Ray Leonard Mt. Rushmore level as he was ascending. He was that good. He still turned out to be an ATG fighter but he didn’t quite get to the Leonard level. I think he got away from his stuff he was doing as he came up through the ranks. I bring that up because not only did he get away from that 45-degree hook, he also fought the wrong style in some of his big moments.

I don’t remember the term drowning style. But I do remember how Tszyu used to fight. I thought Oscar fought aggressively but I never got the impression he fought like Tszyu in his aggressive mode. They lined up differently. Oscar favored his hook in flurries. Whereas Tszyu probed with a jab and favored his right hand. They set up differently. Oscar was more elusive, whereas Tszyu just stepped back like you stated.

But yes you described Tszyu’s style well. He would probe with a jab in a threatening stance. Shoot hard right hands and occasional body shots. And if you became aggressive, he simply stepped back. Once your aggression stopped he stepped back in and went back to work. It was great until it wasn’t anymore. It’s why sustained pressure got to him twice vs Vince Phillips and Ricky Hatton. Tszyu’s defense was simple and effective but predictable. Probe, probe, probe, right hand. Step back. Then rinse and repeat. Great fighter and him being a tremendous puncher allowed him to get away with such a simple style for a shorter junior welterweight. It was pressure but not crouching volume pressure. More so stalking, threatening pressure.

What’s up Bread? I hope all is well and I’ll get right to it: You have mentioned that you sparred in your youth so I have a scenario for you. An 18-to-21-year-old clone of you at your physical/athletic peak walks into the gym and asks you to train him.  What kind of fighter would he be in 3-5 years under your tutelage? (Keep in mind, he’s a clone down to personality, character traits, work ethic, etc) Which weight division would he compete in? Out of the “rock, paper, scissors” you often refer to, which style (pure boxer, volume/pressure fighter, power puncher) would you do best against? Which do you think would trouble you the most? I’m curious to know your thoughts and I tried to keep it as brief as possible. Peace, William in West Palm (“W. Hollis Boxing”)

Bread’s Response: Great question. So let me start off by saying many don’t know that I’m a legit 6’3” and when I started boxing I was 18 years old and I was 155lbs. I was ripped and I was physically strong. I don’t consider myself particularly athletic for a basketball player. I could dunk but I wasn’t a high flyer. But in terms of boxing athleticism, I had more athleticism than the average boxer. I was able to bench press about 285lbs. I never got to 300lbs but I wasn’t a weight lifter, so I had excellent upper body strength. 

I would say I would be a big welterweight, then grow into a junior middleweight. I didn’t get to 200lbs until I was over 30. My parents are slightly built and I still am pretty slim. I just weighed myself yesterday and I was 207lbs after a meal.

So if I molded a clone of myself, I would mold myself into a more cerebral Tommy Hearns. Hearns is the prototype for tall, sharp punchers in urban gyms. But Hearns made some mistakes that cost him big. So a hybrid of Hearns and Alexis Arguello is what I would mold myself into. Man o Man! What a great question. And what a thought. How would I have trained myself. I only wish it would’ve happened. But it happened how it happened and that’s that.

First off I wanted to give you congrats on Kyrone Davis and Caleb Plant. Both looked sensational in their last fights. Interesting enough, Caleb fought more like Kyrone, Kyrone fought more like Caleb. You’re the common factor. I want to focus on Kyrone because Caleb was expected to win, he just didn’t win the way the public thought he would. Kyrone was a huge underdog. I believe +900 if I’m not mistaken. If that fight was for a major title on a bigger platform you would be nominated for Trainer of the Year. My question is how do you get your fighters to fight so many different styles? Especially Kyrone. Is that something you purposely work on, or is it just something that worked and you guys stuck with it?

Bread’s Response: Hmmm….Let’s see. The first fighter I ever trained was Julian Williams. Naazim Richardson told me the biggest issue I would have with him is choosing what style to fight and when to implement it. Naazim was correct. Julian was very well rounded. Most people would think it’s a great thing to be able to fight a variety of styles. But it becomes difficult when you have to choose which one to apply. It’s like going to a restaurant with 90 things on a menu vs going to a restaurant with 15 things on the menu. The Cheesecake Factory can be overwhelming at times if you get what I mean. 

But this helped me as a trainer because I learned to identify what will work and what won’t. I am very proud of Kyrone. Everything was stacked against us in his fight with Elijah Garcia and everything is still stacked against us now. Fighters get anxious and sometimes they don’t stick to calm execution because they think they will get robbed. Kyrone was as calm as you can be under those pressures. To be honest it was more of a tactic than a gameplan. We talk about not getting carried too fast. We talked about Garcia not being able to defend a right hand. We talked about going to our right and challenging Garcia’s left hand from his southpaw stance. So once the right hands started landing, we just stuck with it and waited for Elijah to adjust. He never adjusted and we never had to go to our backup plan which was to walk him down late. It never got to that but we were prepared to do it.

As for how do I get my guys to fight so many styles, I just work on it in the gym. I ask them to do certain things that they may not be comfortable with over and over again. To a point where they are competent. I handicap them in sparring and ask them to work on things under competitive fire that they may not be comfortable with. Just in case. If you look close Kyrone fought Anthony Dirrell in a bounce rhythm and that wasn’t his usual style either but I noticed one day he could fight effectively off of a bounce. So for 4 weeks, we just worked off of a bounce and it completely threw Dirrell off.

Just because you’re an excellent boxer it doesn’t mean you can outbox everyone. Just because you’re strong it doesn’t mean you can push everyone back. Just because you’re a counter puncher it doesn’t mean you can counter punch everyone. I tell my fighters that, so they can be confident in winning a fight in a way that’s not typical of their styles. 

Caleb was confident going inside because we worked on it over and over. And once he felt McCumby couldn’t handle him inside, the fight was a rap. I was comfortable asking Caleb to stay inside and he was comfortable doing it. 

With Kyrone we had the same exact thing. He saw that Elijah couldn’t defend the right hand. And Kyrone threw it in a way where, Elijah couldn’t counter it too often. He just made contact with it. It wasn’t a hard loaded shot. It was a contact touch that just had sting on it. Once I see something is working, I drill my guys to stay with it. Let’s remember the objective is to win and put rounds in the bank. And the opponents only have but so many rounds to figure it out or they lose. So it creates anxiety and it usually causes mistakes.

How do you rate Floyd Schofield’s performance? Do you think he’s ready for the big names or does he need more developing? Do you think he needs to fire his father? He seemed to be scolding him more than giving him instructions? Do you think he has chin issues? I was high on him but I’m concerned now. I didn’t like what I saw. I feel like that should have been an easy fight and it was far from that.

Bread’s Response: Don’t be so fast to write Schofield off. If I’m not mistaken that was his first time going 12 rounds. Most high energy fighters have some trouble going 12 the first time. It’s not as big of a deal as you think. 

Floyd Schofield Snr got his son to this point. I don’t see a reason to fire him. I think father/son teams work more than anyone wants to admit. Over the last 10 years we have had over 20 father/son duos win world titles. I don’t get why people keep repeating that it doesn’t work. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. Father/son duos in boxing have produced several world champions. Just because there are some cases of the father/son duos that didn’t work that doesn’t mean they don’t work as a whole. They do.

Ok so here is what I saw. I saw the dad become frustrated. But he had a right to be. Kid Austin wasn’t listening. Maybe he could’ve given Ronnie Shields a little more time to speak, but you only have 60 seconds in between rounds to get the point across. I’m not going to critique that.

Although I saw Schofield get hurt, that’s no big deal to me. Everyone gets hurt. Everyone! Some just hide it better. However, there are two things that do concern me. Schofield lost awareness in the fight. There were times he stopped fighting, grabbed the back of his head and lost sight of his opponent. Other times he became too relaxed in the clinches and took unnecessary shots. I don’t know if that was from being dizzy. Being fatigued. Or just complacency, but that has to be fixed. He could’ve been knocked out cold. No matter how good your chin is, a part of taking a punch is bracing for it. If you turn away and you’re preoccupied you won’t have time to brace for the shot. And you will get a stronger whiplash impact effect. 

The other thing that bothered me is Schofield was told to box by his father. He decided to slug. He didn’t listen. But even more concerning is that he talked about being exciting after the fight. I don’t like that. A fighter has a corner for a reason. You pay your corner to give you advice. This is not the first time I have seen Schofield slug when he should have boxed. I won’t be too harsh on him but that’s a lack of IQ. If a fighter is told to do something and they decide to go against their instructions and it doesn’t work, and the fighter keeps doing it, he lacks IQ. It’s simple. If you go against the grain. Like say Ali did vs Foreman. It better work. Period!

All in all, I think Scholfield has Shawn Porter level potential. Porter is on the HOF ballot. Scholfield’s physicality, athleticism and conditioning will allow him to be competitive with anyone. Remember Porter has never been blown out or lost badly. All of his losses were extremely close on the cards.

Struggling in a fight can be used to enhance a fighter if the fighter humbles himself. Schofield should know what went wrong. And with Ronnie Shields they should be able to fix it. Moving forward, Schofield will have to listen to his corner more. He’s also going to have to work on his concentration throughout a fight. And last but not least there’s nothing wrong with being ambitious. But they have to be careful talking about sparring sessions. For too many reasons to name, you have to be careful about hanging your hat on what happened in the gym. 

Other than that I do think he would be competitive with the top guys. I would not pick him to beat Tank or Shakur currently. But it’s not up to me. He may rise to the occasion. However, I think he could beat some top contenders or ex champions. He’s probably about three fights away from being polished enough to fight the elite of the division. That’s a good place for a 22-year-old fighter in this era.

What do you think of Richardson Hitchins’ refusal to fight Subriel Matias under the IBF rehydration rules, but being ok to fight Liam Paro under the same rules? When a fighter becomes a businessman this early in their career it’s always a red flag for me. How does this match up play out?

Bread’s Response: Um…..I really never gave it much thought. But I don’t like to overthink. Hitchins most likely viewed Matias as a tough match up for himself. But he views Paro as more suitable for his style. I‘m just guessing by the way. But let me say this. We shouldn’t over analyze. Just because Hitchins may or may not have wanted to fight Matias, it doesn’t mean he can’t beat Paro. It’s really all about what you do on the night of the fight. I feel this is a 50/50 fight. I can see Hitchins outboxing Paro and I can see Paro outworking Hitchins. 

I think the fight comes down to how comfortable Hitchins can get in the ring. If he feels comfortable with Paro’s power, then I can see him outboxing Paro. If Paro’s punches bother Hitchins, I can see Hitchins not taking enough chances to score the points he needs to in order to win. This fight may come down to who the judges are. I don’t want to make a prediction just yet because obviously the judges panel has not come out yet. Unfortunately this is what boxing has come down to. There are some judges that I can predict how they will score the fight before it even happens. And there are others I feel will be objective. Once I know who the judges are, I can give a better prediction.

The UK has a great fight scene. Why do you think it is that they rarely produce great or hall of fame level fighters despite having the best fight scene in the world? 

Bread’s Response: You know what you’re correct about the UK fight scene. They definitely support their fighters. I think the UK does have some HOF level fighters in Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua. They are currently the closest the UK has to active HOF fighters. I also bring them up because both sought out American trainers. 

Hamzah Sheeraz and Sandy Ryan also sought out American trainers. As did Joshua Buatsi. I don’t want to criticize UK trainers. I think Ben Davison and Shane McGuigan are both excellent trainers. But overall I think the UK lacks the trainers. It’s very simple. Their top fighters have succeeded most when they came to America for trainers. Besides Joe Calzaghe and Carl Froch, most of the elite UK fighters have all had trainers who weren’t from the UK. That’s very telling in my opinion.

Two-part question. Pick a jab, power hand, hook, footwork, IQ, condition and chin from a past fighter and current fighter to make your perfect fighter. 

Bread’s Response: 

Current Fighter 

Jab: Boots Ennis

Rear Hand: Inoue

Hook: Ryan Garcia

Footwork: Bam Rodriguez

IQ: Crawford

Chin: Usyk

Past Fighter:

Jab: Tommy Hearns

Rear Hand: Tommy Hearns

Hook: Ray Robinson

Footwork: Ray Leonard

IQ: Ali

Chin: George Chuvalo

Who was the better fighter between Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones? Who had the better career between the two? If you pick one fighter’s career to have, who would that fighter be? I know you have a basketball background, so if you could pick the career of either Charles Barkley an MVP and an easy top 25 player of all time with no rings or Robert Horry a role player who won several championships, who would you pick?

Bread’s Response: Roy Jones was the better fighter. Bernard Hopkins had the better career. 

If I could pick one fighter’s career to have, who would it be? This is tough for me because I really believe in retiring from boxing and not allowing boxing to retire you. I really believe that if I had the choice to retire one fight too early, or one fight too late, I would pick retiring one fight too early. So my pick will be contradictory to my beliefs. But if I had to pick one fighter’s career to have it would be Muhammad Ali’s. 

He won a gold medal at 18 years old. He challenged one of the best heavyweights of all time in Sonny Liston as a 7-to-1 underdog and stopped him at 22 years old. Then stopped him again in the rematch. He went on to defend his title nine times while beating most of the best heavyweights of the 60s. Then he got exiled from boxing for 3 ½ years and he comes back. He loses the Fight of the Century in the best heavyweight fight ever vs ATG Joe Frazier. So he picks himself up, overcomes Joe Frazier and Ken Norton in their rematches and he beats George Foreman. 

Beating Foreman was the biggest and best win in history. Foreman was 40-0 and had destroyed Frazier and Norton who both had beat Ali. While doing so Ali becomes the highest paid boxer in history at that specific time. He avenges all of his losses. He defends his title 10 more times. He’s part of possibly the three biggest fights in history. The Fight of the Century, The Rumble in the Jungle and the Thrilla in Manilla. He becomes the most recognizable person on earth. He becomes the biggest sports icon in sports history. He’s the only man to defeat FOUR Olympic gold medalists as a pro. Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Leon Spinks. He won the heavyweight championship three times, which was a record at the time. At that point in history he was the only man to do so. 

I forgive him for the Holmes and Berbick fights. I don’t hold it against him because of his Parkinson’s Syndrome. I definitely wouldn’t want that. But Ali gave it his all in the ring and he not only accomplished the most but he made the most money and that counts. Ali didn’t duck a soul, you can’t criticize that. Often times he fought his best opposition more than once. Even if they were a bad style for him, see Ken Norton. 

He gave the public every fight they wanted in the 60s and 70s. He was the best heavyweight of two decades, not just one. Ali’s career is the career I would want as a competitor. While considering his condition although it’s part of his story, I don’t know if that disqualifies him from having the greatest career. It doesn’t in my book.

I would rather be Charles Barkley everyday of the week. It’s not even close. Often times being a role player on winning teams is just good fortune of which team picked you. But being the best player on a winning team is totally different. Charles Barkley was a great player on excellent teams for 16 years. 

If the 5 v 5 between Golden Boy and Matchroom happens, who do you favor? Boots (Matchroom) vs Ortiz or Garcia (Golden Boy), Pacheco (Matchroom) vs Munguia (Golden Boy), Shakur (Matchroom) vs Zepeda (Golden Boy), Haney Matchroom) vs Duarte (Golden Boy) , Catterall (Matchroom) vs Ramirez (Golden Boy). Great match ups. 

Bread’s Response: You guys that write in are the best. Sometimes you give me news that I didn’t know about it. I didn’t hear this was happening but if it does…let me break them down quickly in my head. First off I want to know if this is concrete. The reason being is Matchroom lost 5-0 in their last 5 on 5. I’m not criticizing them but that’s a bad L. I want to know if this is something that the internet proposed or did Matchroom and Golden Boy agree to these fights. Because whoever picked the match ups last time for Matchroom, didn’t do a good job of match making. Losing all 5 fights, is not a good look for any entity. 

That being said, I love the 5 on 5 concept. I think this can be good for boxing. If this is real…..here is how I see each match up. 

Boots stops either Ortiz or Garcia. I’m assuming you mean Vergil Ortiz or Ryan Garcia. So in either of those matchups I favor Matchroom.

Pacheco vs Munguia is a tough fight to call. But I thought Munguia went to Top Rank. So I’m not sure if that can happen. If it does, I would slightly favor Munguia. 

So Golden Boy in that one if it happened. 

Shakur vs Zepeda, in the rock, paper, scissors of boxing the volume puncher can compete with the pure boxer even if he’s not as talented or skilled. So Zepeda can compete. Let me revisit this one, once Shakur announces his comeback. He has a hand injury and I want to see how serious it is, and when these fights are happening before I make that pick. Shakur doesn’t have to stop Zepeda but he does have to slow him down and if his hands aren’t at full strength it will be a tougher fight.

Haney vs Duarte. I like Haney but Haney is not with Matchroom. So, again, I don’t know if will happen.

Catterall vs Ramirez. I like Catterall in this one. Ramirez had some serious career momentum. I thought he was really good and had a chance to be on P4P list. But something must’ve happened because he just stopped taking fights. Since he lost to Josh Taylor in 2021, he’s fought only 3 times. The knockdowns are the only thing that separated Ramirez and Taylor in that fight and Taylor was a top 10 P4P guy at the time. But for some reason Ramirez slowed down his progress in the prime of his career. So for that one reason, I’m going to pick Catteral to outbox him. Matchroom. So right now, I say Matchroom has the advantage…

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