The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards giving his thoughts on the aftermath of Naoya Inoue’s thrilling win over Luis Nery, more on Haney-Garcia, who might have won between Margarito and Mayorga, and much more.
I just saw an interview that Charles Barkley did with Shannon Sharpe, and Barkley sort of admitted that Michael Jordan kept Isiah Thomas off of the Dream Team. My question is what are your thoughts on that? And do you think that sort of stuff happens in boxing?
Bread’s Response: Interesting Question… Well boxing is not a team sport. But if you’re asking me is boxing political and can a top fighter influence a promoter to give or not give someone a chance, heck yeah it happens. People get influenced in many different ways in boxing. Especially with opportunities that certain fighters get.
I love Charles Barkley. I’ve never rooted for another team to beat a Barkley team. I wanted Barkley to win a title as bad as any player I can think of along with Allen Iverson. And while I love MJ, in their post basketball careers, Barkley is the guy I love listening to the most. He’s just awesome. I hate it when players, especially those who aren’t as good as he was, throw up the RING thing in his face. Barkley did all he could to get a ring. Sometimes it’s just in your fortune and it wasn’t in his. But man could he play.
People will call me a Philly homer, but I consider Barkley the best Power Forward ever. Tim Duncan played more Center than he did Power Forward but no one wants to admit it. You can verify that on ESPN.COM. Just because he played alongside David Robinson they call him a Power Forward. But ask their coach what position Duncan played. It’s like saying Hakeem Olajuwon was a Power Forward because he played alongside Ralph Sampson.
On to what Barkley said. Listen, the best player on any team at that level will be consulted when putting a team together. Michael Jordan was the best player. I’m an Isiah Thomas fan also but he snubbed Jordan when the Bulls beat them the year before the Olympics and despite his greatness he wasn’t well liked because of the Bulls snub, his racial comments about Larry Bird and Detroit’s chippy style of play.
So I can see Jordan saying I won’t play if he plays. Jordan has never admitted this publicly to my knowledge but I can understand it, if he did. He’s the BIG dog. Besides that, IF he did do it, he didn’t kick Thomas off the team. From what was said, he just said he wouldn’t play if Thomas did. Well if you’re asked and you don’t like someone……I can see why. It’s not about right or wrong when someone is asked their opinion or feelings.
It’s like in boxing. The star fighter who is carrying the promotion can tell the promoters who they want on their card. Great status allows for great influence. It’s just how it is. I get Thomas feeling slighted, I would also feel slighted if I was as great as him and I didn’t get picked. But I also get why Jordan didn’t want him on the team. Jordan didn’t like Thomas. Thomas slighted him. And in 1992 Jordan was THAT GUY. And he also has a right to say who he wants to play with. If Jordan came out and admitted it, it wouldn’t change anything. But I guess it would give Thomas closure. Thanks for this question. It was very different but I liked it.
Hey Mr.Edwards…
I want your opinion on two mythical matchups that could’ve happened in the 2000s – great fights – Vernon Forrest versus Winky Wright, and Ricardo Mayorga versus Antonio Margarito. I think Winky Wright would beat Vernon Forrest, because he’s bigger and had a better chin than Forrest. I have no idea who wins in the Mayorga-Margarito fight. I don’t think Margarito should’ve ever been allowed to fight again after what he did with the loaded hand wraps, because he could’ve killed someone, but I don’t think he used the loaded handwraps for the first half of his career, because I think he would’ve had more success, like in the two fights with Daniel Santos – so, I would’ve liked to see the fight between Margarito and Mayorga only with the guarantee that Margarito couldn’t cheat, of course. How do you see those two fights playing out?
John – Sacramento, California.
Bread’s Response: I think Winky would be too big and too strong for Forrest. Winky wasn’t a big puncher but he was very physically strong. He would bully Forrest who had trouble with physicality. On top of that Forrest wasn’t the same fighter at 154 that he was at 147 and Winky is one of the top 10 Junior Middleweights of all time.
I think Margarito would weather the big wild shots of Mayorga, systematically break him down and stop him or outhustle him. The Margarito from 2003-08 was a handful. And Mayorga’s defense is too porous to deal with what Margarito was bringing.
Dear Breadman,
The boxer vs puncher matchup is about as classic as it gets in boxing. We’ve seen it time and time again. However, when I think of Beterbiev vs Bivol, I can’t think of a good comparable. Fighter styles might be similar in one instance but the physical and talent attributes may be quite different. And vice-versa. What fights in history would you say most closely resemble Beterbiev vs Bivol? Could you please provide examples where the boxer won and examples where the puncher won?
Going back to the Tszyu vs Fundora fight, what do you think Tszyu could’ve done differently to overcome the cut?
Beterbiev faced a similar situation when he fought Marcus Browne. His face was a bloody mess and yet he was able to overcome the situation and get the KO in about 3 to 4 rounds after sustaining the cut.
Was it simply a case of Beterbiev’s superior punching power or did he apply other skills that enabled him to close the show? I think Tszyu’s best chance was to press the action and empty his gas tank over three rounds.
That would’ve made for a hellacious fight because I think Fundora would’ve gladly obliged. Nonetheless, credit to Tszyu for showing tremendous heart. He deserves the nice payday he’s gonna get with the sensational matchup against Ortiz. It’s the rare case in boxing where losing doesn’t ruin everything.
Thanks for the great mailbag.
It’s a tremendous resource to boxing.
Gilbert
Bread’s Response: Beterbiev vs Bivol….So you want me to find a stylistic match up that closely resembles it. Hmm….Ok I have a few but no dead ringers. Joe Louis vs Billy Conn. I know Conn was smaller but stylistically this is very close with Louis being Beterbiev and of course Conn being Bivol. Louis the puncher won by 13th round ko.
Salvador Sanchez vs Wilfredo Gomez. In this case Sanchez the boxer was able to stop an ATG puncher in Gomez who had a ko % almost identical to Beterbiev’s at the time.
I think Beterbiev’s power bailed him out in the Marcus Browne fight. I also believe that Fundora’s jab and reach gave Tszyu issues. Along with being blinded by the blood Marcus Browne is basically the same height as Beterbiev, whereas Fundora is 9 inches taller than Tszyu and it was hard for Tszyu to close the distance while being blinded by blood.
What do I think Tszyu could’ve done differently? Tszyu did a great job and there’s nothing I can really say about his performance. He may have still won to be honest. But if you insist maybe not load up so much but I get why he did it. He wanted to get the fight over with, he couldn’t see. He got to the point where he was trying to land a big counter to clip Fundora instead of systematically breaking him down and punishing him. Maybe that would’ve worked but that’s nitpicking. Tszyu did his thing. I was there LIVE.
So Boots is fighting some bartender from Canada next. After he crushes him in 3-4 rounds, I hope Eddie approaches the Saudis about the Crawford fight. The Saudis pay for good fights and will certainly pay for Crawford vs. Boots. But only if both parties want it. No more excuses for Boots. He can no longer hide behind the promotional/managerial issues excuse.
Madrimov will pose a few problems for Bud early, but after 3-4 rounds, he’ll be a sitting duck and will get stopped in 7 or 8. I’ve watched footage of Madrimov. He moves well, but he loops many of his shots. That will get him timed and countered and eventually stopped. I don’t believe this will be a competitive fight after the first few rounds. Madrimov has a very good amateur pedigree, but so did Felix Diaz and Yoriorkis Gamboa.
If Ryan Garcia isn’t suspended for at least 2 years and fined at least $1M, the sport of boxing is a joke. It would also help if the promoters are held accountable. No lighter weight fighter develops that much mass and musculature in such a short time. I looked at him during fight week and knew there was no way he was making 140 lbs.
Bread’s Response: You’re hating my man. Boots didn’t make Cody Crowley the mandatory. The IBF did. And Crowley is not a turkey. He’s solid. He’s undefeated and he’s Boots’s mandatory. You are the type who will always criticize regardless.
Let’s see how the negotiations go if both Boots and Bud win before we say who will fight and who won’t fight. I agree on the outcomes of the fights. I think Boots and Crawford both win. I think Crawford has the tougher fight. But I read this on social media and I will share it with you. If your principles and morals are influenced by who you like and don’t like, then it’s safe to say you don’t have any. You just don’t like Jaron Ennis for whatever reason. So no matter what he does, you will throw insults and excuses to devalue him.. And one day if he loses you will be there to say, “I told you so.”
I have an uncle who I haven’t spoken to in about 15 years because he was a hater among other things. He used to say every year that the NY Knicks would beat the Chicago Bulls. Instead of appreciating Jordan he predicted every year they would lose. It literally never happened. Some years later Roy Jones would be his target. For 15 years he nitpicked Roy Jones. He had every prediction wrong. Then the second Tarver fight happened and he was right once out of 49 times and you would have thought he was Nostradamus. I get my uncle vibes from you!!
What up Breadman?
I was emailing to talk about the rough few weeks Devin Haney had to face in terms of public perception. Being a boxing fan since I was 4 years old I find it pure hate that Haney gets clowned on YouTube and the internet for taking “fades”. Now we are hearing Ryan Garcia tested positive for PEDS. To me Ryan was already a big enough challenge without PEDS. Now Devin Haney had to try and prove himself by walking down a true puncher who now is on PEDS.
In my younger days as a fan my fav fighters were commended for going toe to toe. I can name a few like Leonard/Duran 1, Hagler/Hearns, all of Arturo Gatti fights, Mickey Ward, Pretty Boy Floyd against Chico Corrales, and all the great Mexican fighters throwing hands like Morales and Barrera. Man oh man what a great era I got to witness. The fighters today are maybe more athletic and walking business men protecting themselves and building their brand. I respect that but these cats on the internet really talk a lot of trash. Boxing and mixed martial arts go hard to the paint and give US fans 100%. So to crap on Devin Haney and clown the heart he showed really sucks. I hope he gets his “0” back and defends his strap against Jack Caterall who is no slouch. Be Devin Haney not trying to be another Floyd or be a big puncher. Just box and win. The stakes are too high and critical to try and please hating a$$ fans.
Respect,
Michael “Expedite” Blount
Bread’s Response: In boxing we have the worst fans in all of sports. People get offended when I say that but it’s true. I can only talk real boxing with about 5 people on planet Earth. Devin Haney did nothing WRONG. He made weight. And he fought his butt off. Ryan beat him and also performed well. But Ryan missed weight on purpose and now we have a positive drug test. In fairness to Ryan and due process, let’s wait until the B samples come back.
If the results of Devin Haney’s fight against Ryan Garcia are changed from a loss to a no contest, does Haney deserve his previous lofty pound-for-pound ranking? Thank you!
Bread’s Response: Great question! In a fair world he would get his status back. But look how he’s being treated right now and he did nothing wrong. So I would say NO. Regardless of how it happened, the performance happened. And everyone saw it. They won’t be able to UNSEE it. So even if the loss gets overturned officially, people still saw what happened in that ring. So no, I don’t think the loss being overturned will upgrade or get Devin’s P4P status back. I think Devin will have to get it back in blood in the ring.
We already know the results of the 2 Tyson/Holyfield and Mosley/Forrest fights. What gameplan would you cook up to change the results if you were coach for those rematches.
Kino
NYC
Bread’s Response: Holyfield used a stiff arm to Tyson’s right shoulder to control him. Sort of steer him. Holyfield was able to tie Tyson up and control him. Holyfield also backed him up and that virtually ended the fight because Tyson can’t fight going backwards.
If I were Tyson’s trainer would attack that stiff arm move Holyfield did. Also, If you remember Tyson started that fight slow. He didn’t come out blazing, he came out subdued. Tyson needs his fast hard starts. I would’ve kept that. And I would tell him no backing up at any cost. If Holyfield wants to back you up, he has to fight for the ground with his life. Tyson has never shown the ability to fight going backwards, so it’s no use of training for that. So I would’ve trained him to be a savage again. Although he lost the 1st fight he came out acting like a savage. In the 2nd fight he was much too human to beat Holyfield. I would have trained his mind to MEAN. He didn’t even start fighting in the rematch until the 3rd round. Imagine the best 1st ROUND fighter in history, taking until the 3rd round to warm up?
Forrest vs Mosley is even tougher. It seems like Forest had his number but you asked so I answer. I noticed that Mosley would attack Forest high and Forrest was killing him with his jabs, counters and body shots all because Shane wasn’t bending his knees as he was engaging. I would have trained Shane to get lower and stay on the inside. Forrest didn’t have the inside game that Mosley had. He also didn’t seem to be as physically strong but for whatever reasons…. Mosley couldn’t bully him around although he beat a guy that stopped Forrest in Mayorga. Boxing is funny like that. Other than that I don’t see much Mosley could’ve done. He was in his prime. Undefeated and at the top of his game and he couldn’t do much with Forrest.
Hey dude, first of all you’re a good trainer, but for one Inoue is NOT on PEDs and 2nd of all Crawford CANNOT beat Canelo, Canelo is levels above Crawford. This is the thing with you, if a fighter ain’t black, you’ll say he’s using PEDs, not as good as certain black fighters, praise more black fighters than non ones.
Bread’s Response: Hey DUDE I never said Inoue was on PEDS. I said he was the TRUTH and a great fighter. But in light of the Ryan Garcia performance where everyone was going crazy with praise, we had to all put a halt to it because of the PED test. So when I was basically asked is Inoue one of the top 5 fighters ever under 122lbs, I wanted to be careful with praise because we are in a PED era whether you know it or not.
I love the way Inoue fights and I’ve openly said if he fought at 147 instead of 118, it’s possible the history of boxing would be different. That’s how good he is.
Now, basically you’re calling me a racist. You’re foolish because I slam Conor Ben for being a cheater and he’s black. You guys bring up fighters like Roy Jones and Shane Mosley in my emails. But you forget that I wasn’t doing a mailbag in the early 2000s. So you bring up guys who popped positive years before I was doing a mailbag to sort of even the score so a black fighter can be criticized. Do you know how sick that is?
I bring them up because I’ve been getting emails about them testing positive. Which is absurd. They’re retired!!! Back to Inoue. He’s never failed a test and I think he’s an awesome super fighter. But in this era, with all that’s going on. I want to assess historical praise on a fight by fight, test by test basis because I have praised fighters in before and I looked foolish because of positive drug test.
Now you’re mad because I said Crawford can beat Canelo. You must not be black because you’re taking offense to me saying something that I don’t believe is far fetched. Do you take offense to Canelo not giving Benavidez a shot because Benavidez earned a shot more than Munguia did? Or does it just offend you if I say a black fighter can beat Canelo?
I think Canelo is special. An ATG. His resume is better than Crawford’s. He’s done more than Crawford. But beating him head to head is different. Crawford and Canelo are roughly the same height. Crawford’s arms are much longer. Canelo has better defense but Crawford has better stamina and legs. Both of their IQs are off the charts. But Canelo has over 20 more fights and I can see he has slowed down. He makes up for it with his experience and IQ but Crawford has that also. So while Crawford is chronologically older than Canelo. His body seems fresher.
Canelo has fought 3 fighters that have similarities to Crawford. Austin Trout, Erislandy Lara and Floyd Mayweather. He struggled with all 3 and lost clear to Mayweather. Hence I’m picking Crawford to win a close decision if they fight. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong but I’m standing on it until I see otherwise. You see I thought it out and it had nothing to do with RACE.
You wrote your opinion like it’s a fact. “Crawford CANNOT beat Canelo”. Well who are you? It’s just your opinion. Just like my opinion is my opinion. If Canelo was as confident as you, he would fight him. He’s fought smaller fighters before. He gave Amir Khan a shot at the middleweight title and Khan never won a title at 147 or 154. Yet he got a shot at the title at MW. Canelo also beat up Josesito Lopez after he upset Victor Ortiz. Canelo also just dominated Junior Middleweight Champion Jermell Charlo. So we know he has given smaller fighters the big chance before. Let’s see if Canelo fights Crawford. If he does, write in again so we can revisit the conversation and the outcome.
Bread,
Great weekend of fights, the real winners are the fans! Canelo vs Munguia was a fun fight & played out as most boxing insiders figured it would. Cannot take away from it being a good fight & solid card. Canelo’s experience, boxing IQ, patience and overall performance showed all the qualities you’ve highlighted/pointed out in the past. His reflexes & speed have slowed a bit, still very high level! Inoue vs Nery was another fight that was fun while it lasted. Card was also fantastic & I’m certain most American fans missed it due to date & time of fight. Inoue showed us he can overcome adversity, with that knock down. The Donaire fight also showed his grit. Crawford, Usyk & Fury as well as top P4P fighters will be fighting soon. When you continue to take on top threats and contenders the possibility to lose becomes very real. This year should be fun to watch upsets, thrillers and movement in the P4P lists. My following questions are; Who do you think will be upset from rankings (Haney’s loss is still in question)? What fight currently scheduled are you looking forward to most & why?Who do you think will emerge in P4P rankings that people have slept on?
Blessings to you, your family and stable.
Richard KOregon
Bread’s Response: I really enjoyed Canelo vs Munguia. Munguia fought very well. Canelo just knows too much for him. But Canelo had to go in his bag because of Munguia’s conditioning and relentlessness. Very good PPV fight.
Inoue is a straight dog. Nonito is one of the best punchers ever and he broke Inoue’s face. And Inoue responded like a champion. Against Nery he was hit on the button with a huge shot. Within 1 round he was knocking Nery down and then he brutalized him. Inoue is a gunslinger and gunslingers go down at times. There has never been one in history who is as violent as Inoue who didn’t get hurt or go down. I was impressed.
Inoue and Crawford are the top 2 fighters in the world in my opinion. But if Usyk beats Fury I don’t know how you keep him from the top spot. Fury is 5 inches taller and 50lbs heavier and he’s a tremendous fighter in his own right.
I think Bam Rodriguez will ascend on the P4P list. I like him to clearly beat the great Juan Estrada. I also think Jaron Ennis will start to get some P4P votes if he becomes active under Matchroom. I also believe the winner of Vergil Ortiz vs Tim Tszyu will start to get some serious consideration. That’s a tremendous match up and the winner will spark serious interest from the purist as a P4P level fighter. I hope no one gets injured and the fight comes off.
Assalaam alaykum Mr Edwards,
I hope you and your family and loved ones are well and happy. I’ve been struggling with something and wanted to present it to you for analysis. Your boxing knowledge is considerably broader, deeper, and better than my own and I want to take advantage of that in gratitude for you making it available through the mailbag. I’ve been trying to think of whether or not any PBC beltholder has successfully unified with a beltholder from a different promotional company. I was reading your mailbag on the PBC website and couldn’t think of any title unification fights where a PBC boxer put his belt on the line against a champion fighter from Matchroom, Top Rank, Golden Boy, or another promoter.
Errol Spence and Jermell Charlo are, in my mind, the PBC gold standards for unification. Errol put his belts on the line against Bud Crawford but obviously came up short. To my knowledge, none of Jermell’s unification fights came against non-PBC fighters. Scooter Fulton unified against Brandon Figueroa, who is and was a PBC fighter.
I think it speaks to PBC’s dominance of the American boxing market that the company was able to field so many unified (and one undisputed) champion without ever going out of house to make unification fights. I also understand that the choice is probably more business than boxing, especially considering the dominance I mentioned.
However, I did want your take on it as well. I think there’s another side of the historical debate that will reflect poorly on PBC-affiliated fighters for never winning a unification fight against a fighter who didn’t fight under the same banner. This is more true given the recent performances of PBC champions when they do fight champions from other promotional companies. Thank you for all you do for the sport.
Very respectfully,
John
Bread’s Response: This is a great question and I won’t shy away from it. As I’m typing, I’m trying to think of a PBC fighter beating an non-PBC fighter in a unification. I can only think of one but I don’t know if you will count it. Mayweather vs Pacquiao was a unification and Mayweather won. So I guess that counts. If you don’t count that, I can’t think of another scenario. Excellent question.
Good call on not anointing Inoue just yet. When he got dropped all I could think of is you saying you didn’t want to anoint him while his career was still going on. Genius! But he is a monster. He stormed back like a true champion. Do you see signs of slippage or was he just being careless? With Ryan Garcia claiming he was set up, do you think it’s any validity to his claim or will the B samples clear up our curiosity? I don’t know as much about drug testing as you obviously but from my research, it seems difficult to tamper with test results.
Bread’s Response: I don’t want to talk about the Ryan Garcia PED test until the B samples are tested. I see what’s going on and a lot of false information is being put out by people who know it’s false information. It’s not even worth talking about until the B samples are tested and more investigation is done.
Yes, I didn’t want to get too carried away with Inoue’s historical status just yet. Funny thing is, I got emails from people who were mad at me for not anointing him at the current moment. Can’t please everyone…
What’s up coach I always love your insight on the sport so just a few questions for you that may or may not make the mailbag. Looking forward to it either way as always! Seemed like the shoulder roll Ryan Garcia used threw Devin off a bit, what would you have advised him to do to mount an effective attack?
Do you think roadwork or sparring is better for stamina? I see fighters like Benavidez who don’t really slow down then you have fighters like Canelo who seemed to fade or just doesn’t have same output.
What’s the best way to gain stamina for 12 round fight from your perspective?
Who do you lean towards In Tszyu vs Ortiz and why?
What stands out the most to you when watching Inoue? Who would lean towards in Morrell vs Berlanga.
We were all anticipating Bivol vs Beterbiev and now that circumstances changes everything I would love to know your thoughts on the fight before the injury?
Bread’s Response: I don’t want to say publicly what I would do with the shoulder roll. The game is to be sold, not to be told and Ryan is an active fighter. And oftentimes I say stuff and fighters and their teams use it, instead of hiring me. I will agree it did throw Devin off and that shocked me because Ryan was vulnerable in that position and I felt like Devin could’ve inflicted more damage on him.
I think sparring is the #1 thing a fighter can do for conditioning. So nothing will get you in shape to fight more than sparring which is the closest thing you can do to fighting. But roadwork is a close second. If someone told me I could only do 2 things to get ready for a fight and absolutely NOTHING else. #1 would be sparring. #2 would be roadwork.
The best way to gain stamina is combining floor drills, with sparring, with roadwork, with proper nutrition and rest. If you consistently do all these things your stamina will improve. So while road work and sparring are the top 2 things, the other things are also important and when combined properly, conditioning takes off.
I lean slightly towards Ortiz over Tszyu. I don’t really know why but I feel like Ortiz will be victorious. It’s really just a gut feeling that Ortiz may be slightly more special.
Inoue’s ability to be fast and twitchy without any stamina issues. Oftentimes super sharp, twitchy fighters lose steam because they are like sprinters. But Inoue doesn’t lose any steam. His conditioning is off the charts.
I would heavily favor Morrell to defeat Berlanga.
Before the injury I favored Beterbiev by late stoppage. I have no idea now. Beterbiev is very injury prone, the injuries are starting to pile up.
Hey Bread,
I’ll keep it short and sweet.
Having defeated Luis Nery, would you agree it’s time for Inoue to move up to featherweight? There are no big names or accomplishments left for him at junior featherweight. Featherweight on the other hand offers a host of new opportunities, and the division is far more glamorous by comparison …
Doug
Bread’s Response: No, I disagree strongly. Why is it time for a fighter to move up who just moved up? Why can’t he stay at 122lbs and just consistently take on the best available opponent. You do know that Japan has all 4 champions at bantamweight which is a division below Inoue. If they unify, it creates a Super fight. The unified champion at 118, challenges the unified champion at 122 in the biggest fight in Japanese history.
I’m not talking to you specifically but you wrote in…this moving up thing is BS. If a fighter outgrows a division he should move up. But if a fighter can make weight safely, he doesn’t have to move up. Especially when he’s already moved up from 108 through 5 divisions and is now at 122lbs. Boxing fans are so hard to please. The guy is a great fighter. He’s 22-0 in title fights. He’s moved up and unified with all four belts in not one but two divisions.
Besides that there is still smoke at 122lbs. And there is another killer lurking at 118 in Junto Nakatani. On top of that Bam Rodriguez will be challenging Estrada at 115. Bam is young. Maybe he may outgrow 115 in the next few years. Who knows? My point is challenges create themselves if we are patient and moving up can be a way to run from smoke. Inoue is just fine at 122lbs.
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