In this week’s mailbag, every letter is about the heavyweights. We tackle Oleksandr Usyk and Tyson Fury, of course, but also one fighter from their undercard (Johnny Fisher), this era of heavyweights in general, and Claressa Shields’ upcoming fight for the women’s undisputed heavyweight championship.
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OLEKSANDR USYK IS THE TRUE KING BUT MAY NOT RULE FOR VERY LONG
Oleksandr Usyk is the real deal, the best of the current crop, but he is getting older, which means he is getting closer to his expiry date. If he hangs around for too long, he will definitely get stopped.
Tyson Fury knew what to do to hurt Usyk in both fights, but this version of Fury could no longer execute that game plan for 12 rounds to really hurt Usyk and knock him out. He got old and he does not have the stamina to fight someone like Usyk. Someone younger will have the stamina and faster hands to be able to execute the game plan and really hurt Usyk if he fights on for another two to three years. We have seen what happened to Wladimir Klitschko. He got old in the ring because he fought on for too long.
By the way, in my opinion, the shot to the body that Daniel Dubois landed and put Usyk down, I thought that was a legal blog.
Lucas Ketelle’s response: I see Usyk as an all-time-great and a top-five heavyweight. In my mind, it goes Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis, Usyk, and then whoever you want fifth.
That said, aging is real and both looked old. Usyk, though, isn’t just a stamina guy. There is something else about him. He is a puzzle – a puzzle that might not have an answer unless his body fails him. Not unlike basketball player Tim Duncan, Usyk is an all-time-great who will never get the praise, because what he does isn’t consumable in a one-minute Instagram clip.
If any fighter goes on too long they will lose, but what Usyk has done is worthy of praise and I, for one, would hate to see his era end with a crushing knockout – just so naysayers can speak begrudgingly about how weak this heavyweight era was, rather than how strong Usyk is to become undisputed at both cruiserweight and heavyweight in the four-belt era.
Usyk’s major problem isn’t age, though. It’s that guys like Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder and even Tyson Fury to most fans were supposed to be better than him. They weren’t. So giving Usyk praise is also like grieving their favorite fighter.
There is nothing superficial about Usyk – he just can fight – and in the modern world where substance is often bragging about your own achievements, Usyk is a far cry from what we often see. And as you mentioned, the low blow from Dubois creates enough doubt for some to question if Usyk is the best guy.
Time beats everyone, and Usyk rightfully earned his place in history with his fights. Now it is up to him to decide when it’s time to call it a day.
NO NEED FOR USYK TO RETIRE WHEN HE’S SO CLOSE TO GOAT STATUS
Oleksandr Usyk looked his best ever against Tyson Fury, and he’s three wins away from heavyweight GOAT status: the winner of Daniel Dubois vs. Joseph Parker; one of Agit Kabayel, Martin Bakole or Zhilei Zhang; and then maybe either Moses Itauma is ready or one more other fight with whomever emerges as the best guy (maybe Richard Torrez Jnr or Bakhodir Jalolov at that point). Why retire now?
Owen Lewis’ response: Besides the obvious reason – taking punches to the head hurts and has a deleterious effect on the brain and quality of life – I’m not as convinced as you are that those wins would be meaningful to Usyk’s legacy. His resume at heavyweight is like the best action sequences in a movie – electric, condensed action with plenty of risk. Would the scene really be better with a couple extra side characters?
Having beaten Fury twice, Anthony Joshua twice, and the leading heavyweight of the next generation in Dubois, I think we already know everything we need to know about Usyk, and I don’t really see the point in beating fighters who are of lesser stature (or beating Dubois again) simply to diversify his resume a bit more.
I see your point, though – when comparing Usyk to the greats in history, we run into a disconnect. Unlike the Alis and Holmeses, Usyk is undefeated, but unlike Usyk, they fought dozens of times at heavyweight against a much wider variety of opponents, which provided extra opportunities to lose. Most will argue that Usyk just doesn’t have enough fights at heavyweight to compare, and I agree on some level. Declaring that Usyk is a better big man than Lennox Lewis seems a bit ridiculous given that Lewis has 44 fights at heavyweight and Usyk has seven.
But Usyk doesn’t have enough time left in his career to build out a resume that broad. To me, his claim to historical greatness is in his willingness to accept any challenge and then his ability to overcome those challenges. His last five fights are UD12 Joshua, SD12 Joshua, KO9 Dubois, SD12 Fury, and UD12 Fury. Usyk may want to continue fighting, but I can’t imagine that run getting much better.
TYSON FURY ISN’T AS GREAT AS PEOPLE SAID HE WAS
Tyson Fury once said something like: “No man can beat me. I will destroy Oleksandr Usyk every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I’m going to smash that ugly dosser midget rabbit middleweight,” etc., etc., etc. Well, Fury’s ego, big mouth, and lack of dedication finally caught up to him. I never liked him.
Where are all of Fury’s fans who claimed he is within the top 10 or 20 heavyweights of all time? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. He can take his dogshit resume into retirement and spend his millions on the finest uncastrated boar meat.
-nightmr111
Kieran Mulvaney’s response: I don’t think losing to Oleksandr Usyk means Fury isn’t a top 20 heavyweight; I think he probably is, actually. But the ongoing questions about the failed drug tests and the “uncastrated boar meat,” the association with Daniel Kinahan, the embrace of Turki Alalshikh and the Saudis (although he’s hardly alone there), his past public bigotry – all these feed into the public perception of the kind of person Fury is, and what he is about to discover is that people will sweep such things under the carpet when you’re on top but will use them as cudgels to beat you with as soon as they think you’re on the way down.
TYSON FURY IS TOO OLD AND FAT TO BE WHAT HE ONCE WAS
Oleksandr Usyk won fair and square. Tyson Fury had the physical advantages visually and on paper. Fury was wearing cheating shorts, and I am not sure if his beard length was really significant or not.
Before the fight, I really thought that Fury had a shot to win by pressing the action more, by being focused and by not clowning around and by coming in with better conditioning. And in the first five rounds it looked like Fury was focused, disciplined and competitive. But then he took round 6 off, and in round 7 I realised he had no more to give. He was just trying to survive – to not get knocked out.
Basically, the Fury who had an incredible engine and would fight all 12 rounds to the bitter end, who would get up when he is knocked down – that person is gone. He is now old, fat and clumsy. By round 11 he could not keep his hands up, and any shots he delivered had no mustard on them. He was physically exhausted. Even though he wanted to change things and even though he knew what needed to be done to win, his body could not execute the game plan. Years of abuse have finally taken their toll.
Kieran Mulvaney’s response: Fury had his moments, but this was a fight of two halves: close through six rounds and an Usyk masterpiece down the stretch.
I too felt that Fury was struggling to pull the trigger in the second half, and obviously that had a lot to do with Usyk, whose movement and use of the ring space was excellent. But I have no idea why anyone would weigh in at 280 pounds and then try to box a smaller opponent who is at least as equally skilled. Either Fury was overthinking or he wasn’t thinking at all.
Contributing to all the above is that Fury’s lack of discipline is surely catching up to him. I’m not sure he is in the habit of surrounding himself with truth-tellers; he seems a pretty self-indulgent sort who also appreciates the indulgence of others. Catching up to him as well, I suspect, are the lingering after-effects of the wars with Deontay Wilder. Those two made each other – and they will end up destroying each other
JOHNNY FISHER WASN’T OVERHYPED, JUST MISUNDERSTOOD
I think the narrative on Fisher is a bit misunderstood. I never got the impression anyone was touting him to be the future of the division. Admittedly, I wouldn’t be surprised if his blowhard promoter talked some nonsense at some point, but that wouldn’t mean much. He was a popular, local kid playing rugby at college and started to spar Joe Joyce and went pro. He brought a significant following to local cards, which helped generate ticket sales.
He and his family have always been very humble, which was part of the appeal. Part of his problem is that he blew out another fighter who wasn’t a contender in Alen Babic. Babic was never any good, but he was a popular ticket seller with a padded record. Dave Allen is a shopworn journeyman, but he is a competent boxer, which is something Fisher had yet to face.
Lucas Ketelle’s response: Johnny Fisher is the horror film of boxing. Sure, he is fun to watch – but to be honest, expectations have been reasonably limited (just like your favorite slasher).
Fisher, a ticket seller with an easygoing everyman attitude and limited skill, is improving and becoming what he is now: a fringe contender. Fisher embodies everything that most people love about the sport – someone with a lot of confidence entering boxing blindly later in life – and overachieving.
Do all Cinderella stories have to end with a glass slipper? I don’t think so. I think sometimes you can become a folk hero by trying and doing. Will Fisher ever be Oleksandr Usyk? No. Does that matter? No. He is a fun domestic-level fighter who could even overachieve at some point and win a fight he is underqualified to win.
So when Fisher looked bad against a veteran pro like Dave Allen, it wasn’t all that shocking. Plus, there is the flip side of the coin. Fisher also picked up a lot of experience in this fight, and sometimes a bad performance leads to a lot of growth. Sometimes it leads to the end. Fisher might not go into the all-time-great conversations, but what he has given so far for his experience in the sport is notable.
TRASHING THIS ERA OF HEAVYWEIGHTS
Weakest heavyweight era of all time. A cruiserweight comes up and wipes out the whole division. None of these guys belong in a list with the heavyweight greats of other eras except for the little man, Oleksandr Usyk.
Deontay Wilder, Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua were all overpaid, average boxers who all got exposed as soon as they fought somebody good.
Owen Lewis’ response: Look, no one is claiming that this era was as good as when Muhammad Ali, George Foreman and Joe Frazier were at their best, or even the heyday of Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield. But for my money, Fury, Wilder and Joshua all played their part in a damn fine era. Fury beat Wladimir Klitschko. So did Joshua. Wilder knocked out Luis Ortiz twice and was all of one second away from stopping Fury in 2018.
Sure, Usyk comprehensively beat Joshua twice, and Wilder fell off after Fury stopped him twice (though who doesn’t decline after getting knocked out in consecutive fights?). Like it or not, though, Wilder is live against any heavyweight in history with that power of his, even if you’d favor loads of heavyweights against him. Joshua isn’t much less powerful, and he has better boxing skills than Wilder, to boot.
And as for Fury – you’re docking him points for losing two close fights to Usyk, arguably the best and most proven active boxer in the entire sport? I don’t see it. Maybe the boxing world jumped the gun with the argument that Fury would be the favorite against all the greats of the past, but then again, Fury was 34-0-1 at one point and no one really knew how to solve him.
Credit to Usyk for figuring out the puzzle, but also credit to Fury for pushing Usyk to heights no one else could. If you want evidence that Fury isn’t the face of a weak era, just listen to Usyk, after the rematch, saying without hesitation that Fury is the best opponent he’s fought.
If you can, I’d suggest trying to find the good in this heavyweight era, because I don’t think what comes next will be as good. Luckily the fights will always be there on YouTube if you decide to put on the rose-colored glasses at any point.
UNDISPUTED IS UNNECESSARY FOR CLARESSA SHIELDS VS. DANIELLE PERKINS
David Greisman’s response: This is the rare case where the WBC is actually doing something right. The WBC says any women’s boxing match above 168 is a heavyweight bout.
And you’re right that Shields vs. Perkins being for all four world titles, and potentially making Shields undisputed in a third weight class, is a case where this latest accomplishment just isn’t that meaningful.
The IBF lists two fighters at heavyweight and seven fighters at light heavyweight.
The WBA is creating a heavyweight division out of thin air, and it also only has seven fighters at light heavyweight.
The WBO has four fighters at light heavyweight, zero fighters at cruiserweight and two at heavyweight.
Even the WBC’s 11-woman heavyweight division is otherwise lacking in depth. Several of those ranked fighters are inactive. The sixth-ranked boxer is all of 3-3. The eighth-ranked fighter is 1-8-2.
Perkins is at least one of the best of who’s left, though she’s 42 years old, has had only five pro fights.
The lack of a deep pool of talent isn’t Shields’ fault. She can only face who’s around. And as I said earlier in the year, if Shields is the greatest woman boxer of all time, then she’s also unfortunately ahead of her time.
It won’t be any consolation to Shields right now, but hopefully she and Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano and this current generation of women boxers will inspire the next generation.
Want to be featured in the mailbag? Comment or ask a question in the comments section below. Submissions may be edited for length and clarity. We also may select readers’ comments from other BoxingScene stories.
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