In the days after his second-round stoppage of Mariusz Wach, Moses Itauma – perhaps the world’s most promising young heavyweight – spoke to a collection of journalists, BoxingScene included.
He spoke about what he hopes will be next in his career, the past that contributed to him not pursuing qualification for an Olympics, the heavyweight landscape, and more.
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Q: How do you reflect on your recent victory over Mariusz Wach?
The fact that he’s not known for outboxing people. He’s not known for ridiculous punch power; he’s not known for his speed. What’s he known for? Having a good chin. And I feel like if I go in there and he can’t hit me – that just basically means I can go in there, tee up on him, and there’s only so much stress your body can handle. I kind of knew it wasn’t going to be a test.
It was [even easier than I expected]. I trained hard for that fight. At the beginning I thought this was going to be a fight I’d have to overcome; showcase something else. Not just power. It didn’t get to that point. It was a little bit [disappointing].
Q: What’s next?
I’d take any fight, really. Me and my brother [Karol] was thinking about it. I’m screaming for loads of people’s names, but none of them really make sense. “Who do you want to go for?” “Who’s got the titles.” Solomon Dacres; Fabio Wardley; the Ukrainian guy that has the European title [Oleksandr Zakhozhyi]. They’re the kind of people that I want to be fighting, but at the same time, for me to fight them, it doesn’t make sense.
Me and my brother were thinking Joe Joyce would be a good fight. I feel like it’d be a bit of a Mariusz Wach situation, where people think he’s got a chin; he’s gonna take me somewhere. That could be a good fight for me – Joe Joyce could be a good fight for me.
Since I turned pro it has been boxing, boxing, boxing. I box on Saturday and I’m back in the gym on Monday. I said to Francis [Warren, my manager] that I don’t want to hear about boxing for a good month. I need a couple of days’ rest.
I’m going to Cyprus and Paris for the Olympics and then I’m looking to go somewhere the week after.
Q: Do you understand why others are reluctant to fight you?
Yeah. If I was in their shoes, I wouldn’t take the fight with me either. Why would I? It’s a losing situation. If I win, it’s, “He’s meant to do that – he’s a kid”. If you lose, you can’t really come back from that because you got beat by a kid.
Q: You were disappointed after Wach, and disappointed after your professional debut against Marcel Bode. As a professional have you experienced more disappointment than you expected?
In the two fights I went the distance [against Kostiantyn Dovbyschenko and Kevin Nicolas Espindolal] I was disappointed with myself, ‘cause I could have done more. Even though I say I’m disappointed in those fights, I’m actually happy in my career. I’m a year and a half in; I’ve had 10 fights. I’m ranked number eight with the WBO; I’m in a good position right now. I can’t really ask for more. As long as the fans are happy, that’s all that matters, because that’s all it is at the end of the day – entertainment. I definitely am enjoying it.
I want it to be my next fight or the fight after [when I compete for a title]. When I turned pro I said I wanted to beat Mike Tyson’s record [as the youngest world heavyweight champion] – that’s only because I shared the ring with all the world guys. I hold my own. Sometimes I went into that spar, I done the better. In my mind I’m thinking, “Why are you holding me back? I’m as good as these guys”. Then obviously I’m in the ring, and the atmosphere; the small gloves; even the referee. In amateur boxing they’re very strict, with everything; in professional boxing you can give them a little elbow; a headbutt; you can get away with it. You can look at the ref, and he’s like, “Don’t look at me”. There’s a lot of differences, but I do feel like, skill-wise, I am ready. My time will come.
Q: It’s been suggested you didn’t go the Paris 2024 because you were told you wouldn’t be selected…
That’s nonsense. Rob McCracken told me himself if I’d stayed amateur I’d have gone to this Olympics. I sparred Delicious [Orie] and I had it my way. I could have gone.
It tempted me a lot, but external factors – I don’t know how to word this without actually saying it. My family kind of needed me to turn pro, if that makes sense?
I didn’t come from a privileged background, do you know what I mean? Turning professional, I’m not saying I done it for that, but I just kind of didn’t really have a choice.
I wouldn’t regret [not being an Olympian], no. Never. I boxed out in Saudi Arabia; I was in the dinner with all the greatest heavyweights; lightweights. I was in the same room as Mike Tyson; Manny Pacquiao; Shannon Briggs. I was just there with all of these greats thinking, “My life is really blessed”. In my mind I was thinking, “I could have gone to the Olympics, and this would always be there”, but no, this has all come perfect timing. I definitely don’t regret this. No way.
It makes it a step closer to being at the top. Why would I want to wait four or five years if I can have that next year? I don’t regret that. I feel like I’m in the best game in the world. At the beginning I kind of felt like I had to do it; I’ve [since] said it multiple times, “I get to do this; I have the opportunity to do this”. There are so many fighters around the world that want to do this as their job but can’t. Or fighters that enjoy boxing and have to do bricklaying on the side, or something. I’m in a privileged position where I don’t have to do that. I’ve got nothing to complain about. I feel like I’m living the dream. Sometimes I look at myself, and when I’m in Saudi Arabia and look at the room they’ve got for me, and I’m like… the food I’m eating. When I was out training in Saudi Arabia, I’m looking at [Tyson] Fury; I’m looking at Kevin Lerena; all these lot. I’m looking at the villa that we’re in and thinking, “No, this is fake”. Two years ago I was struggling. Me and my brother was eating mayonnaise on rice for dinner – do you get what I mean? Now I was in Saudi Arabia with the greatest heavyweights, eating big steaks; living in a nice house; a nice apartment. It felt surreal.
Q: Is it important for you to be patient?
I wouldn’t say it’s important. Being patient doesn’t really get what you want, does it? Do you get what I mean? It’s not that I feel ready now. I’ve been boxing since I was nine years old. It’s not like I picked up the sport yesterday. A lot of heavyweights don’t start boxing until they’re 18; 19. I started when I was nine, do you get what I mean? I’m an actual heavyweight boxer. I look at people on the circuit, and these lot ain’t got as much experience as me. There’s a lot of fighters that are 25; 26; only started boxing at 18. Statistically I’m more experienced than them. Do you get what I mean? I’ve boxed as an amateur; I’ve boxed against the world; 24 [fights]. Only eight of them were in England. I was in sparring camps; even if I went to sparring camps, I was never allowed to spar people my age. I always had to spar the senior lot. I’m kind of used to that.
Q: You sounded like you felt under pressure to earn for your family…
Yeah I did and that’s why I didn’t really enjoy it at first. Then when all the puzzle pieces started to come together, then I realised the sport I’m in. I do love it now.
Q: Do you have a financial target?
No, not really. Mine is just being comfortable and not having to worry about money. That’s it, really. I don’t need 50 cars or private jets, I just want to be comfortable. I don’t want anyone around me to be stressing.
There have been times when me and my brother would ask each other “What have we got to eat for dinner tonight? Oh, I guess we are just going to sleep”. That’s what we had for our dinner – we had sleep for dinner.
This was when I was like 16 or 17 – only two or three years ago. I swear. We were laughing about it at the time but only now do I realise that we really had nothing. It was all going so well; my mum and dad were together; Karol was working; everything was going to plan. But then my dad wasn’t really around anymore and my mum can’t really afford three big kids on her own.
I’ve got a lot of stories but I don’t really know if I’m allowed to say them. Me and Samuel, my middle brother, would laugh about it. I’d say, “Samuel, what is there to eat?” And he’d say, “Nothing and we’ve got no money”, so I’d say, “Right, so what do we do?”, and he’d say, “Well, I guess we’re going to sleep”. Sometimes we could go to a mate’s house and hope they’d cook something for us. It gave me extra motivation to work harder.
It was a mad time. I was weighing about 120kg when I was 15 or 16 and then when me and Samuel had to move out I would be losing a kilo or two every time I went to training. My trainer would say, “Why are you losing so much weight?” And I’d just tell him I had no money for food. That’s just how it was – it wasn’t intentional.
I just got skinny, I dropped about 25kgs and that’s when my coach Dan Woledge sponsored me and then Frank Warren jumped in to sponsor me as well.
Q: What does your mum think about you being a boxer?
She never wanted me to box. She’d ask why we’re fighting; she’d ask why we couldn’t do a normal sport like football. My dad used to watch me spar and say he didn’t like it but now he’s like, “You’re wasting time, finish the job [by getting a knockout”. I remember after one of my fights he said, “You are good but you waste time – stop wasting time, just finish the job”. They have all been one or two-round jobs since then so I can thank my dad for that.
Q: What do you see as your best route to a world title?
If I’m being honest, when I turned professional I just thought two guys get in the ring and fight – then climb the rankings. But that’s just not it. It is so much more complicated than that. I was unaware of that – I just thought I’d be able to smash all these boys up. I wanted the big names on my pro debut.
I was gunning for that record because I was looking at the top boys and I knew I could beat those guys. As I’m going through my professional career I’m realising how wrong I was; there’s a lot of stuff I can’t control and that needs to be done to get fights.
I’m still going to gun for the record but I know it’s going to be a little bit harder. Back when Mike Tyson was around boxing was simpler. Now it’s a bit more complicated. Is it possible? I don’t know. I just want to have step-ups, climb the rankings and smash people in the face. But you have to have a good team around you to get there.
Q: What have you made of Team GB’s performances?
I thought Delicious would get further. He’s the European champion so I thought he’d get further than what he did. But maybe winning isn’t a good thing because if you wake up thinking you’re a winner you’ll go to bed a loser. Every morning you have to have the mentality of a loser.
Maybe him winning European gold meant he thought he was a winner so he could take his foot off the gas. Maybe that’s what cost him an Olympic medal. It could be, I don’t know his mentality.
I’m there to watch the athletes. The runners and boxers have trained their whole lives for that so I want to go and support them and not the Olympic Committee.
[I’m attending] the athletics; the men and women’s 52 and 92 final [in boxing]. I know a few boxers at the Olympics; I’m very close with the German in there; I’ve done countless of rounds with him so I’m cheering for him. I know him from being around the circuit.
Q: Who wins the heavyweight competition?
I think [Bakhodir] Jalolov but that’s unfair to be honest. He’s 12-0-0 [actually 14-0] as a professional; he’s 30-years-old, done two Olympic cycles already, that’s a bit unfair isn’t it? I know though that in Uzbekistan winning Olympic gold is better than a world title so if you can do then you would.
The Australian heavyweight [Teremoana Jnr] looks good too.
Q: Do you consider Jalolov a future rival?
I want him to be. I want to get him back for all the people in the Olympics who are thinking, ‘Why have I got to fight him?’. I don’t have nothing personal against him.
Q: Are there any boxers you want to fight before they retire?
No. I’ve shared the ring with Tyson [Fury] in his camp. I want to do the same with [Anthony] Joshua and I want to do the same with [Oleksandr] Usyk. It doesn’t need to be a 10-round scrap. I just want to do some rounds with them just to say I’ve done it.
Q: Is it realistic to fight one of them in 2026?
I wouldn’t turn that down. Look at [Wladimir] Klitschko – he passed the baton down to Joshua, so I wouldn’t turn it down.
Q: Have you asked about sparring Joshua?
I asked Ben [Davison, our trainer] if I would ever spar Joshua and he said if he ever fights a southpaw then yes, but I don’t feel like…. His training time is from 10-12 and mine is from 11.30-1 so we cross over. I’m always asking him about things.
Even though they’re arch enemies [Fury and Joshua] both give similar answers – they’re on the same page.
In terms of advice from inside boxing I kind of want to find my own way. I don’t want to ask, “How do you handle that pressure?”, and he says, “Get a massage or do yoga”. I want to find my own things. I don’t want to do things because [Joshua’s] done them. I do look up to him because he has paved a way but I want to pave my own way too.
Q:…did you buy a house?
I’ve bought two houses. I live in one of them and we’re doing up the other one. We have tenants who want to be in in a certain time.
Q: Who wins Daniel Dubois-Anthony Joshua?
I think “AJ” will beat Dubois. It won’t be easy but I think he’ll knock him out though.
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